SBC PUMP FAILURE - VOSA Update (Please read)

[Blaze_One]

Hi all,

Some of you may recall that I had a 2nd SBC pump failure last year (having had the original pump changed FoC by MB West London only 6 months earlier) - for those of you who haven't read the thread, please click on the following link:

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=105314

As part of my grievance I contacted VOSA because of the sudden failure of the pump, there was no warning - it just went (MB DID ultimately replace the 2nd pump FoC after a fair amount of arguing).

In the aftermath, I have since had a response back from VOSA (and my apologise's as it was some time back but has got buried in the hundreds of other emails I have since received!).

VOSA have effectively come back to me and said "There are no similar reports of transistor failure to prove a design or construction
deficiency with the Brake Control Modules" and "The official response from the manufacturer concludes there is insufficient evidence
of a wider problem to warrant an action within the terms of the Code" - I have attached the letter I received back from VOSA for all to see.

What this tells me is that enough of us aren't complaining (and of course MB are telling porkie pies!) - my new SBC pump appears to be working fine at the mo (touch wood, rabbits foot and everything else!!) but I know lots of others are having problems...what is needed is a concerted effort by all with SBC pumps to really raise this issue with VOSA if we really want our voices heard. - I was disgusted and appalled that my first FoC pump failed on me so catastrophically that I had to do something about it - rather then just complain to MB. Shouldn't we all do the same? The form VOSA sent me took less then 15mins to complete - its doesn't get you a free SBC, but if everyone who has had this problem takes 15mins to write to VOSA it could save a lot of heartache and problems for others (and maybe even yourself) in the future.

Just trying to do my bit considering how invaluable this forum and its members have been to me...

Good luck! (any questions, feel free to drop me a line)

 

[Mic]

Our indies may be able to help here?????

but I think I have only read of two (two too many of course) where there has been total failure; ie. no brakes whatsoever without warning, and both those were on replacement units and not the original factory fitted units.

Maybe there have been more and may be some were originals?

Mic

 

[Frontstep]

Hi all,

Some of you may recall that I had a 2nd SBC pump failure last year (having had the original pump changed FoC by MB West London only 6 months earlier) - for those of you who haven't read the thread, please click on the following link:

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=105314

As part of my grievance I contacted VOSA because of the sudden failure of the pump, there was no warning - it just went (MB DID ultimately replace the 2nd pump FoC after a fair amount of arguing).

In the aftermath, I have since had a response back from VOSA (and my apologise's as it was some time back but has got buried in the hundreds of other emails I have since received!).

VOSA have effectively come back to me and said "There are no similar reports of transistor failure to prove a design or construction
deficiency with the Brake Control Modules" and "The official response from the manufacturer concludes there is insufficient evidence
of a wider problem to warrant an action within the terms of the Code" - I have attached the letter I received back from VOSA for all to see.

What this tells me is that enough of us aren't complaining (and of course MB are telling porkie pies!) - my new SBC pump appears to be working fine at the mo (touch wood, rabbits foot and everything else!!) but I know lots of others are having problems...what is needed is a concerted effort by all with SBC pumps to really raise this issue with VOSA if we really want our voices heard. - I was disgusted and appalled that my first FoC pump failed on me so catastrophically that I had to do something about it - rather then just complain to MB. Shouldn't we all do the same? The form VOSA sent me took less then 15mins to complete - its doesn't get you a free SBC, but if everyone who has had this problem takes 15mins to write to VOSA it could save a lot of heartache and problems for others (and maybe even yourself) in the future.

Just trying to do my bit considering how invaluable this forum and its members have been to me...

Good luck! (any questions, feel free to drop me a line)

You need to enact the complaint procedure with VOSA, they have a duty to be proactive and the "not me gov no ones told us" defence is unnaceptable.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/contactu...ments/complaintssuggestionsandcompliments.htm

 

[sixpack]

Pump

Who told VOSA that transistor failure causes the problem? Either the writer of this letter from VOSA knows nothing whatsoever about the problem or searched for "transistor failure SBC" and found nothing. Either way its gross criminal incompetence. Peter

 

[star]

I have only seen one fail completely BUT the guy had ignored the warnings for over a year (and was a taxi !!!), otherwise all the others gave plenty of warning .

 

[Blaze_One]

Thank you for your comments gents,

Mic - of the two complete failures, do you remember if one of those was for me?? As you say, two is too many and if I'm not one of those two - then that means there's 3 of us at least...in my original thread, MB West London had actually told me that 6 others that had been replaced had failed without warning too ... so there is definitely something going on...I read a thread from M3MK ( http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=116910&page=3 ) who mentioned he's had 3 failures in the space of a year (not sure if they've been sudden failures or had a warning though) - I'll perhaps drop him a line and find out...

Frontstep - I didn't realise I could go further - I'll look into this especially if I can get more "evidence" from other members who may have had a sudden failure without warning...its just not acceptable.

Sixpack - The chap who wrote back to me is different to the guy I initially spoke to at VOSA (his name was Robert Parry) - Robert was the person who sent me the form I needed to complete and return to VOSA. I clearly stated in my documentation to them that MB had confirmed this as an SBC Pump Failure (as they'd put on STAR and confirmed this to me) - I also sent him pictures of my dash when it went all crazy beeping and flashing at me in red...I'm a novice with cars so felt I really couldn't have provided him with any clearer information - at no point had I suggested it was a "transistor failure"...so going back to him, would be interested to see how he came to that conclusion.

Star/Ian - Hope all is well? Can understand the taxi driver warning, but mine gave up (bearing in mind it was meant to be a new replacement not 6 months earlier) without any such warning leaving me with no brakes (10% efficiency) on a car of that weight...crazy!

As I say chaps, just my thoughts but if there are others out there who have had a complete failure with no warning it would be well worth contacting VOSA - the more of these we can provide, the more pressure, ultimately, we can put on MB. Someone next time may not be as lucky.

 

[st4]

Did your system not have air in it which prematurely killed the second pump?

 

[SL63 Mark]

Did your system not have air in it which prematurely killed the second pump?

Is the SBC system supposed to have air in it ?

I believe mine contains hydraulic fluid ?

 

[V6Matty]

Is the SBC system supposed to have air in it ?

I believe mine contains hydraulic fluid ?

think thats what Steve ment Mark, there was some air in the system that damaged it and then failed.

Correct me if i'm wrong though?

 

[Corned]

^ Correct. I think that was the last of M3MK's failures. I think it was he who mentioned the system full of air.

 

[sixpack]

SBC

Hi Blaze, I didnt mean to imply that it was you who suggested to VOSA that it was transistor failure. It would be interesting to ask the VOSA writer where he got the idea. Peter

 

[Blaze_One]

Sixpack/Peter - I didn't think that was what you were suggesting Just wanted to give you some detail re: what I sent to VOSA - it was very clear.

Re: air in the pump - I have no idea if the truth be known. MB never told me and to be fair, was the last thing on my mind to ask - was fighting MB on two fronts 1) how could they let me drive around in a car which had such a major failure without warning and 2) as a minimum trying to get my 2nd SBC pump from them FoC having installed the "new" one less then 6 months earlier.

 

[st4]

If the brakes weren't properly bled there would be air in the system. This would cause the pump to overload and burn out.

An SBC pumps good for 10yrs 150k miles typically

 

[b1g1an]

That'll be why they end the warranty at 10 years then

 

[Aitch55]

If the brakes weren't properly bled there would be air in the system. This would cause the pump to overload and burn out.

An SBC pumps good for 10yrs 150k miles typically

Is that 10 years or 150K or whichever comes first?

 

[whitenemesis]

Is that 10 years or 150K or whichever comes first?

IFAIK there was never any hard and fast definition in the UK, in the US though it was well communicated, 10yrs unlimited mileage

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=703591

 

[Corned]

The situation in the UK is deliberately vague, from what I can gather.

Divide and conquer appears to be the mantra they follow over here.

The UK warranty itself appears to be along the lines of "You are on your own, unless you have the cojones to take us to court, in which case you're in with a sniff of a chance".

 

[Blaze_One]

Hi chaps,

ST4 - I'm hoping the brakes were bled properly on my first SBC change - after all it was undertaken by MB West London and their technicians...how much that counts for, I'll leave to you to decide :-D

My SBC pump went after 9 years and having only done, approx, 45K miles.

 

[star]

If there air in the system then it wouldn't allow to activate after fitting.

 

[Xtractorfan]

If MB..as they have done, are replacing the faulty SBC pumps FOC as soon as they are told about them, then VOSA would never hear about the number of failures, so therefore it would never flag up as a problem.. It only seems to become a problem if a second or third pump is needed.