smoking crd engine at idle

[honey2067]

OK, chuck me out if you like but here me out first. I have a Chrysler Grand Voyager 2.5 crd 2004.(boo, hiss) I believe it is a 250td merc block with a 16v italian head. Now, this car has been great/faultless and still is. My problem is when i have been idleing for say 10-15 mins in traffic, excessisve smoke comes from the exhaust. When the the traffic clears and I drive off the smoke is unbearable and embarrasing, by the time I get to 5th gear its gone and no evidence of it, come to a roundabout, stop, no smoke, 30 seconds, pull away no smoke. I like to add that during all this, the engine is running perfectly with no noises, no excess fuel, oil or water consumption and no loss of power. It starts and stops perfectly. Its just a visual thing sort of like something out of James Bond. Hope you can help, I dont want to take to a garage to do 'exploratory work' and end up with a bill for £600 and still no solution. Thanks in advance. Danny

 

[panason1c]

Worn turbo turbine seals/bushes is the first thing that comes to mind............

 

[honey2067]

so does that mean a new unit or can it be sorted fairly quickly

 

[honey2067]

Well, seems like no one has a solution so I'm gonna have to throw som money at it. I'm off to buy a new turbo today. Thanks anyway

 

[jberks]

Well, seems like no one has a solution so I'm gonna have to throw som money at it. I'm off to buy a new turbo today. Thanks anyway

That's an expensive 'maybe' surely?
I'd get a mechanic to play with it for a day first. It does sound like oil contamination but it depends on what the foibles of that engine are. It could be an MB engine but the Jeep 2.5crd is a 4 cylinder whereas the MB 250td was a 5 cyl so it equally may not be.

 

[panason1c]

I'm off to buy a new turbo today. Thanks anyway

Might i suggest just a tad more investigation of the problem before you go and buy a very expensive turbo?

 

[Parrot of Doom]

A couple of hours with a knowledgable mechanic may be a lot cheaper than a new turbo!

 

[honey2067]

Well this is the problem, 2 mechanics have checked it out but cannot explain why it does it. It runs perfect before, during and after it does it. One mechanic says it could be the stem seals another says its a breather or the EGR valve but without chucking money and parts at it, it seems like an expensive 'process of elimination' diagnosis.

 

[panason1c]

Well this is the problem, 2 mechanics have checked it out but cannot explain why it does it. It runs perfect before, during and after it does it. One mechanic says it could be the stem seals another says its a breather or the EGR valve but without chucking money and parts at it, it seems like an expensive 'process of elimination' diagnosis.

Well, one of the symptoms of worn stem seals is that the engine will momentarily give a heavy puff of smoke after a (foot off accelerater) downhill run and at the moment you put your foot back on the accelerater......so, if that is not the case i would rule out stem seals.....

If it was the egr valve you would also suffer poor running/loss of power.......... you could try blanking the egr off and see if there is any difference......I really doubt that this would cause the problems you describe though.


I still suspect turbo seals as a possible cause but i would eliminate other possible causes before replacing the turbo.


Edit.............Just a thought to eliminate 'breather' as a possible cause.....

Try leaving the engine running at idle for 15 minutes (the length of time you previously mentioned) with the oil filler cap OFF and see if the problem is still there . ..leaving the filler cap off will negate any possibly blocked breather pipes.....Dont forget to refit the cap before you drive the car....leaving the filler cap off will negate any possibly blocked breather pipes........................NOTE...Only do this if the engine will run without throwing oil out of the orifice otherwise it could get very messy....... Alternatively, remove the dipstick whilst the engine is at idle and check out any excessive pressure coming from the tube, this would indicate a breather problem or worn rings, etc.


One more thought.......
Remove the turbo intercooler pipes and check if there appears to be an overly 'excessive' amount of oil residue inside the intercooler and/or pipes......if there is then that is a clue towards a aforementioned turbo problem.

 

[honey2067]

Ok, its in a BMW specialist garage as I speak, they are scratching their heads. Spoke to chrysler and they dont have a clue except 'bring it down and we will take a look' yer right, they didnt even know where the child locks were. They did suggest one thing tho, that I might have a leaking injector. The parts dept told me that they had sold 18 since january and at £760 each, yes you read that right £760 each, I dont think anyone is gonna buy a set on the basis of 'process of elimination'. Anyone recomend a service exchange company, I cant be without the car so need to buy/exchange.

 

[panason1c]

Have you checked out/eliminated the possibility of worn turbo seals?

 

[honey2067]

they removed the turbo pipes and it still did it. Like I said it is only a visual problem as it runs absolutley fine.

 

[panason1c]

they removed the turbo pipes and it still did it. Like I said it is only a visual problem as it runs absolutley fine.

I assume then that the garage will carry out an injector 'leak-off' test before renewing your ultra expensive injectors.........this test should confirm a faulty injector. (or not..as the case may be)

 

[panason1c]

Question..............What colour is the smoke from the exhaust at the time you experience the problem ?......black? ....or blue?

'Black' would suggest unburnt diesel fuel (injector...maybe?)............ 'blue' would suggest engine oil being burnt.

 

[honey2067]

Smoke is white

 

[honey2067]

Found this on a diesel specialist site:

Quote:
Black smoke
This is due to a air to fuel ratio imbalance, either the fuel system is delivering too much fuel into the engine or there is not enough clean air (oxygen ) a few things to look for :

Faulty injectors (injectors need attention at about 100.000 to 120 000 miles)
Faulty injector pump
Dirty air cleaner
Turbocharger or intercooler faulty
Problems within cylinder head, valves clogged up due to faulty EGR (exhaust gas recycling unit)
White smoke
Normally means that the fuel injected into the cylinder is not burning correctly. The smoke will burn your eyes.

Engine/pump timing out
Fuel starvation to the pump causing the pumps timing not to operate correctly
Low engine compression
Water/petrol in the fuel
Blue smoke
The engine is burning engine oil

Worn cylinders or piston rings
Faulty valves or valve stem seals
Engine over full with engine oil
Faulty injector pump/lift pump allowing engine oil to be mixed with the diesel

 

[Uncle Benz]

White smoke as you are describing makes me think of turbo failure. Oil leaks from the turbo bearing direct into the exhaust, and emerges as white smoke, typically after a time spent idling. Taking the pipes off the turbo will make no difference to this type of fault. An injector or fuelling issue would not appear worse after time spent idling.

 

[honey2067]

Surely if the turbo pipe is disconected then there is no way for oil to get into the combustion chamber

 

[jberks]

it doesn't. It goes directly into the exhaust and then gets burned off by the hot gasses coming from the combustion chamber, emerging as white smoke - remember the pipes at this point in the exhaust can glow red hot so it doesn't need to get into the cylinder.

 

[honey2067]

ah I see, i will need to get them to have a closer look at that. Is it a common problem?