Super Fuels ?

truthfindergeneral

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
228
Reaction score
0
Location
Merseyside
The debate rumbles on
'Staff at the Metropolitan Police (Met) have been banned from using premium super fuels in a bid to save money.
Transport bosses for the force, which runs 5,442 road vehicles, said such fuels "offer no discernible benefit" compared to standard products.
They said the cost, about five pence a litre more, cannot be justified when public money is being spent.
But fuel providers have clamed the fuels can help keep new cars performing like new for longer.
The Met runs hybrid cars and motorcycles to armed response vehicles and coaches.
'Dispute findings'
The Met's decision comes as senior staff signed a new contract for vehicle fuel cards.
The new two-year agreement will give drivers more flexibility and enable them to take advantage of cheaper supermarket forecourts.
In documents submitted to the Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA), Nigel Jakubowski, director of transport services, said staff can choose the cheapest fuel available.
Mr Jakubowski said: "It is also proposed that users are prevented from using 'super' fuels that offer no discernible benefit over standard fuels but typically cost more than five pence per litre more."
Consumer magazine Which? provoked an outcry from fuel providers last year when it published a report branding super fuels a "waste of money".
But providers disputed the findings and methodology of the report'

'But providers disputed the findings'... well they would, wouldn't they. Seems to me that too many claims are made for so called super fuels with little or no hard evidence offered to the motorist to back them up.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
This all depends on the engines in the cars, and no more or no less, yes you are wasting money using 98 when the car will run on 95
 

Quick Silver

Senior Member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,122
Reaction score
57
Age
72
Location
Moonshine Island, surrounded by water
Your Mercedes
R129 1990 SL 300..
I find that using supermarket diesel in my two cabs they do less mpg (around 4mpg) and smoke quite badly when you put your foot down. Using branded premium fuels the mpg is better, little or no smoke from the exhaust and they seem to perform better .
As for my SL I use whatever is available as it doesnt seem to make any difference.
I understand that premium diesel fuels have a higher Cetane content can anyone who maybe works in a refinery confirm this , I used to years ago but out of touch with it all now.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
As for my SL I use whatever is available as it doesnt seem to make any difference.

This is what I find in my SL,and I have done extensive test
 

Alex M Grieve

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
9,388
Reaction score
59
Location
Broom, Warwickshire
Your Mercedes
B Class d200 Sport Premium Plus (66)
I find that using supermarket diesel in my two cabs they do less mpg (around 4mpg) and smoke quite badly when you put your foot down. Using branded premium fuels the mpg is better, little or no smoke from the exhaust and they seem to perform better .
As for my SL I use whatever is available as it doesn't seem to make any difference.
I understand that premium diesel fuels have a higher Cetane content can anyone who maybe works in a refinery confirm this , I used to years ago but out of touch with it all now.

That is quite a dramatic difference Chris. I am surprised that others have not noticed, or are most diesel drivers just too thrifty to splash out on premium fuels?

I found that premium petrol made a big difference to the 190 we had many years ago (much sharper performance, better mpg), but no discernible difference to any petrol car since.
 
OP
T

truthfindergeneral

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
228
Reaction score
0
Location
Merseyside
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #6
5p more a litre is quite a difference when you are buying 100 lts or more of the stuff every week. I'm not bothered about whether I smoke or not but how many mpg I do.
I'd have thought the Met would have done a lot of mpg figures before deciding on not using the stuff .
 

Alex Crow

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
10,677
Reaction score
40
Location
Super Suffolk
Your Mercedes
W169, W124, w202, W203, KTM 250 EXC, VW T25 camper and a Polo in a pear tree
i am with 'which' here, the high octane increased mpg myth is just like the remap one, people believe that which makes them happy. apparently when questioned (sorry, can't quote the source) many more people claim to believe in heaven than hell - even in samples of self declared christians. the point? people believe in all sorts of things that please or reassure them despite evidence to disprove them - but if it makes you feel good then why not?

the notion that higher octane fuels can deliver greater mpg is just a non starter. the specific calorific value of the fuels does not vary significantly. the only efficiency gains that can be had are when knock control comes into the equation - ie particularly when at full throttle. in these situations, ignition systems can run slightly greater advance due to the higher octane, but only on engines with active knock control (this does include practically all modern engines). this will deliver very slightly increased efficiency in these transient conditions. HOWEVER, most people do not drive like this! and knock control rarely ever comes into the equation, so mpg figures in normal driving will not show any significant improvement.

the only advantage to higher octane fuels is in modified engines that need them (eg my racing thumpstar motorbike), or when an owner of, say, an amg55 compressor wants to reap the last 5 or 10 bhp out of their over endowed engine.

who's next? :D
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
Thanks for that post Alex, so true. I had to listen to someone recently who told me of his 10 miles better consumption on a 124 200E by using premium 98
 

Top Cat

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
667
Reaction score
0
Location
Milton Keynes
Your Mercedes
(97) W202 C230 Elegance Estate
One of our cars (a Ford) just does not like Tesco petrol, despite being run on it for many months, it was only when we switched to Shell (same price around here now) that we noticed a change. There was no change to MPG, but it was more driveable - it would pull easier from low revs in a higher gear, it would pull away cleanly and crisply and it idles more smoothly.

I always used to beleive there was no discernable difference in branded/discount fuels, but my tests have shown that actually there is, albeit slight for some vehicles yet maybe none at all for others.

I think of it like this now - Tesco value coffee and Nescafe Gold Blend are still coffees, still have the correct minimum contents, yet one is a discount no frills brand while the other is a premium priced offering. You pays your monay and take your choice, many people will find the discount brand fine and never try the better one, yet other may be vice-versa, it doesn't make either better or worse, it's what you prefer and what suits you best.
 

Juddian

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Messages
897
Reaction score
0
Location
Kettering
Your Mercedes
W124CE/1996/3199cc/LPG'd
My sons grey import Subaru needs 98 to run properly, an expensive bind that limits where he can get fuel, though in his case he'd be foolish to go against the expert advice he's received as his car like many of that make is producing very high power for it's size.

Not sure about Diesel fuel, if you put Miller's DPS4 in normal supermarket grade (i do) it gives a certain smell, if you use forecourt best you find the smell is identical which indicates that similar (smelling at least) additives are being used to those found in Millers.
Cheap derv without Miller's smells completely different.
 

Xtractorfan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,084
Reaction score
156
Your Mercedes
S class
This debate is like the chipping and fuel saving debate earlier .. who actually knows, it will benefit some cars and not others ..alexander again you prefer not to believe... in anything...the argument you put forward isnt actually factual..when was the last time you heard an engine pinking or knocking...you dont these days, simply because we have engine management systems or ecu's ....
I find supermarket 'city diesel' causes my car to smoke and possibly give less mpg ..but i cant prove it ..
I also never believed that Jordan and peter whatever his name is wouldnt last but at the time couldnt prove it ..same as Miss cole and her guy..

Oh I remember last time shell or one of the big companies brought out a super fuel...who were the people who wouldnt use it after trialling it... the reps.. they ended up with higher servicing, burnt valves and less mpg..
 
Last edited:

roadhog

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
1,616
Reaction score
2
Location
Sunny Norfolk
Your Mercedes
W124 300D x2, C124 300
I've tried the super fuel alternative in my car but I found no discernible advantage of using sunflower oil over the usual rapeseed, unfortunately olive oil is just too expensive. :D
 

Quick Silver

Senior Member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,122
Reaction score
57
Age
72
Location
Moonshine Island, surrounded by water
Your Mercedes
R129 1990 SL 300..
That is quite a dramatic difference Chris. I am surprised that others have not noticed, or are most diesel drivers just too thrifty to splash out on premium fuels .


Consuming around £280 worth of diesel a week in 2 vehicles I've found a worthwhile difference, like others I've done extensive tests to see, the fuel tanks are allways topped off on a daily basis and my wallet is definetly healthier and taxis are not known for pussyfoot driving . :twisted:
 

Alex Crow

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
10,677
Reaction score
40
Location
Super Suffolk
Your Mercedes
W169, W124, w202, W203, KTM 250 EXC, VW T25 camper and a Polo in a pear tree
..when was the last time you heard an engine pinking or knocking...you dont these days, simply because we have engine management systems or ecu's ....

yes that is quite correct, this is the knock control that i referred to, sorry if it was an overly technical post.

i believe in many things that i have reason to believe in. for instance i understand that the earth is round, and orbits the sun. i believe this because i know of the reasoned arguments, backed up by scientific observation, that prove beyond reasonable doubt that this is true. naturally there was a time when many people knew this not to be true, this informs me that often when people 'know' things they are mistaken. i am just a person the same as you, and just as capable of asserting things as fact that are not. this is why you will find me constantly making reference to scientific reasoning.

religion? i "believe" in the kindness of strangers, and the warmth of the human spirit. it is sad that we see so much of the dark side of people on the news, but i believe that there is more kindness than cruelty, and more love than hate in this world. i am probably closest to being a pantheist than an atheist. there you go, is that ethereal enough for you?
 

Alex M Grieve

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
9,388
Reaction score
59
Location
Broom, Warwickshire
Your Mercedes
B Class d200 Sport Premium Plus (66)
Now that you mention it ..............

Not a superfuel, but I did notice fewer mpg (as much as 10% less) when using "city diesel" (Tesco in this case). Suggested by xtractorfan, and now that you come to mention it, it was a clear difference which was reversed immediately by a return to Nectar points at BP.

IIRC "city diesel" was a product introduced to provide a low sulphur fuel for use in built up areas. We must assume that the Cetane number was sufficient, but did the extra refining or processing to remove the sulphur have an unwanted effect too?
 

Petrolhead

New Registration
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
0
Reaction score
0
Point Missed???

Not sure but I think that the point has been missed, the article does not mention supermarket versus fuel companies, but normal fuel against higher costing "superfuel".

Personally, I have never noticed any better MPG from a super fuel against normal fuel, but this could be driving style, car maintenence or whatever.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
Not sure but I think that the point has been missed, the article does not mention supermarket versus fuel companies, but normal fuel against higher costing "superfuel".

Personally, I have never noticed any better MPG from a super fuel against normal fuel, but this could be driving style, car maintenence or whatever.

It is because there is no difference and welcome to you to the forum:D
 

Petrolhead

New Registration
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
0
Reaction score
0
Geeky

Just did the numbers on the litres used and by not using superfuels saves around £250k
 
Gtechniq manufactures an ultra durable and comprehensive range of surface protection products for cars, boats, RV's and aircrafthttp://www.gtechniq.com
Top Bottom