That Jeremy Vine cycling incident

[M80]

Better for you to set off a bit earlier to give yourself the necessary time than endanger a cyclist.

If only we could assess how many slower moving, cyclists, tractors, older small car drivers, road joggers, sheep / cattle in the road, loaded wagons on steep uphills, road works, broken traffic lights, congested traffic, diversions for whatever, that we should allow the extra journey time for.
Of course we might make allowance for all these possibilities and arrive with an hour or so to spare.
If only life was so ideal.

Sorry forgot, caravans, horse boxes & flooded roads.

 

[Craiglxviii]

If only we could assess how many slower moving, cyclists, tractors, older small car drivers, road joggers, sheep / cattle in the road, loaded wagons on steep uphills, road works, broken traffic lights, congested traffic, diversions for whatever, that we should allow the extra journey time for.
Of course we might make allowance for all these possibilities and arrive with an hour or so to spare.
If only life was so ideal.

Sorry forgot, caravans, horse boxes & flooded roads.

You missed out anyone in a Rover too. They're factory limited to 45mph around here, well it's more like they only have one speed, that or zero.

 

[L John]

If only we could assess how many slower moving, cyclists, tractors, older small car drivers, road joggers, sheep / cattle in the road, loaded wagons on steep uphills, road works, broken traffic lights, congested traffic, diversions for whatever, that we should allow the extra journey time for.
Of course we might make allowance for all these possibilities and arrive with an hour or so to spare.
If only life was so ideal.

Sorry forgot, caravans, horse boxes & flooded roads.

I totally agree with you but if there are unexpected delays, that's never an excuse to force past a cyclist whether the cyclist is considerate or thinks he owns the road.
If a driver can't pass safely then he shouldn't even be thinking about it.
He/she should just accept they are going to be late.
By setting off a bit earlier they minimise the effect of the expected and unexpected delays.

 

[M80]

I totally agree with you but if there are unexpected delays, that's never an excuse to force past a cyclist whether the cyclist is considerate or thinks he owns the road.
If a driver can't pass safely then he shouldn't even be thinking about it.
He/she should just accept they are going to be late.
By setting off a bit earlier they minimise the effect of the expected and unexpected delays.

I totally agree with you because if there is an incident the motorist will be held responsible,
even if the cyclist demonstrated no responsibility.

 

[Gkinghorn]

Yep.. The driver has a vehicle which is potentially lethal to other road users ... Certainly more so than a cycle is ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[47p2]

There was a local cyclist killed in Glasgow a couple of weeks ago on a road I've cycled a number of times, ironically the same day as the Tour of Britain left Glasgow for stage 1 of the week long event. Click

I've just read of a hit and run of another cyclist last Friday on a road I've cycled dozens of times. Click

These aren't random incidents, they happen all the time. I cycle with some of the local constabulary, one of the officers was involved in a hit and run last winter when he was out on his own, he sustained a punctured lung and broken ribs, another was involved in a collision caused by a truck, the officer had to be airlifted to hospital with a fractured pelvis. The hit and run incident is still ongoing, the police know who the driver was but proving it is the difficult part, the truck incident is being pursued at a private court hearing as there wasn't enough evidence for the police to take it to court and the officer now has to proceed independently.

So the driver isn't always blamed, the police only prosecute if they have hard evidence.

The roads are there for us all to use, it matters not whether cyclists run red lights or whether they cycle on pavements, it doesn't mean you as a driver should vent your anger at every cyclist you come across. I've been cycling longer than I've been driving and I've seen more stupid/dangerous/illegal/crazy manoeuvres from vehicle drivers than I have ever seen cyclists doing stupid/dangerous/illegal/crazy manoeuvres.

There are some drivers that when they see a cyclist on the road the 'red mist' comes down, they have to pass that bike no matter what... a close pass, that'll teach them not to get in the drivers way... into oncoming traffic, so the car on the opposite lane has to take evasive action, it's unbelievable that someone would spend all that money on a vehicle then use it as a tool for harming others. The aggression used when passing cyclists is another bugbear, they slam the car into 2nd gear and pass as close and as fast as possible, keeping 2nd gear until the red line in achieved on the rev counter, what's that all about, is it supposed to intimidate us?


So there's a cyclist in front of you, he's doing 15-20mph and you're in a hurry, you'll be late for that appointment if he holds you up for a minute or two, the speed limit's 30mph on that road, you want to get up to 30mph, the road's narrow and the oncoming traffic's heavy but you can squeeze past... Just think before you do try and squeeze past, the cyclist may have to swerve a pothole or could possibly be blown into the centre of the road by the crosswind, just when you're passing. If you do hit him/her, you're not going to be late for that appointment, you won't be going... It takes a long time between knocking down/killing a cyclist and eventually going to court, gives you time to think, to worry, to ponder over what you could have done instead of what you did do.

 

[M80]

About three years ago a neighbour who "doesn't understand motorbikes", and I was tempted to point out that as they haven't been taught English that it was no surprise, informed me that a motor cyclist had killed a cyclist on the Long Hill (very rural bendy) road.
I asked what had happened "we don't know they're both dead", but the ass in him caused an umption. Not unusual in my experience. But this guy didn't see the need for ABS either as "I don't drive that fast" in a car of such low standard and value that my umption doesn't believe he would invest in good tyres. Of course he is legal and has no need to spend some dosh in case a kid runs out while he is driving slowly. A fair example of blinkered thinking methinks.


The thing that strikes me from this thread is the great risk, that I had already perceived, to the cyclist. Maybe I am just seeing what I wish to confirm my biased opinion though??

It is very reasonable that we should all consider others much more. Share our roads, and our limited space, much less selfishly. But the busy world doesn't look like that being a realistic expectation, and continually our space/s become more congested with time. It can only get worse.
There is no reasonable legal defence for not allowing space for the cyclist/s. But who ever the driver perceives to be right or wrong it's clear that the rider will be worse for the encounter.
I'll stick to falling off boats, as a general rule I'm likely to be doing that for longer.

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Here is my view, I am a keen cyclist myself...

IMO what did the cyclist do wrong? Nothing. It was a narrow street definately not a cars width to pass, you would never cycle in close to parked cars for fear of someone flinging their door open and taking you off, which has happened to me more than once. There was nowhere for him to pull in and allow the car past, cyclists aren't allowed on the pavement and there is no cycle lane. Regardless of how inconvenient it is to the driver, its tough, you have to wait it out.

However, stopping in the middle of the street? Not sure I would do that, bit of a dumb thing to do, why not wait until they are along side and then have it out with them?

Until I started road cycling (I used to mountain bike mostly before) I didnt appreciate a) how crap roads are in this country for cyclists, road bikes have the smallest wheel and tyre diameter, you want to avoid holes, manholes and drains for your life and the tarmac joins in the road which will throw you off at a microseconds notice potentially into traffic, so you avoid being tight to the kerb or in the camber of the road. b) most road cyclists ride with SPD cleats meaning you are locked into your pedals, its not easy to stop and get out of the pedals on demand especially if you have right of way. c) momentum is key because of the way the bike is geared, you dont want to slow down or stop to invite someone past, it takes ages to build that momentum and rythym up again. d) Road bikes are fast bikes but they dont stop all that well, so if you pull in front of a cyclist, dont expect him to stop on a sixpence like you will in your ABS braked cars with fat low profile tyres, expect there to be a close call and also expect to see a really p----d off cycist confront you who has just had to deal with all of the above!

It really just inst as simple as riding a bike, cyclists have to be aware of more than just other road users. I honestly believe that if everyone was made to ride at least 5 miles through a city, their perception would change and there would be a little more respect.

That said some cyclists make a rod for their own back.

In this instance, the driver provoked the situation by showing zero patience and its hardly a surprise their was a reaction.

 

[47p2]

Just home from a rather pleasant 30 mile cycle, only a couple of rather minor incidents from impatient drivers and a cyclist on the wrong side of the cycle lane.


On the subject of Jeremy Vine stopping where he did to confront the driver, well I would have done exactly the same. Had he'd stopped further along where the car could have passed him then the most likely outcome would have been the driver rammed her car into 1st gear and screamed passed him at warp speed as close as she could whilst flipping the finger at him. Yes thats the sort of things we have to put up with from all the holier than thou law abiding motorists

 

[Xtractorfan]

Well it is Jeremy Vine so you cannot expect sympathy...

 

[rf065]

On the subject of Jeremy Vine stopping where he did to confront the driver, well I would have done exactly the same.

He only had to stop 3 feet further on and there were no parked cars on either side of the road, I suspect this video & this thread would never have seen the light of day had he done so.

Russ

 

[JBell]

I find him an antagonistic person at the best of times on the radio, I suspect he was trying to get a rise out of the other motorist and did it well

 

[curious]

This weekend I did the Dorset Rotary Cancer Research bike ride http://www.warehamrotary.co.uk/bikeride/ and had a fantastic time all day except for one stupid bitch in a 4x4 in the last 5 miles who sounded her horn in the most aggressive manner going, whilst 3 of us were cycling in single file down this road...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.6...4!1sgLj4V70DfVvhB7nhsXQBMw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

this road is wide enough to get 3 Challenger tanks down it side by side! There wasn't even oncoming traffic.

All of us looked at each other with the WTF was that all about.

 

[47p2]

Today's near miss, I had to slam on my brakes and come to a halt to miss this one...

 

[M80]

As a motorists we are to give the cyclist 1.5m clearance, in case they fall off or need to veer in the road suddenly.
It has been said here that we should also make allowance for the poor brakes on a cycle, and it follows here that they will have poor traction due to skinny tyres as well.
Cyclists are advised to take a dominant position on the road. This to stay out of the gutter and to allow for wiggle room.
They may not like to slow or stop as they need to use gears to get back up to speed.
Oh and their feet might be strapped to the pedals.
This is a fair amount for a non cyclist to be aware of.

Some cycle lanes are 1.5m wide and often even less. A portion of this is taken up by a cyclist, if used, around 0.6 to 0.7m is my thinking. A motorist seeing the lane segregation would be forgiven for believing that the road is then for motor transport use.
Maybe incorrectly but I would not have considered estimating the width of the cycle lane then calculating that there isn't an additional, to the cycle, 1.5m allowance by design and then consciously given extra room on the main carriageway for them.

Driving back from Chesterfield on a good wide road I passed 2 cyclists. It was no bother to give a generous allowance as I passed. A little further I stop for roadworks. As much of the carriageway is now taken by the road works I move in to the left some to allow any larger oncoming vehicle to pass.
The 2 cyclists, as is usual, came up the inside of the bakers half dozen stopped vehicles (1 was a motor bike). The gap they were happy to use was no more than 0.3m wider than their cycles. We should allow a gap for them but they don't feel the need for themselves. This is experienced by many motorists as cycles meander through congested and stopped traffic, and often with pedestrians thrown in the mix as well.

It has been suggested that a motorist wouldn't pass a parked car so close as to take the risk of an opening door hitting them. As we aren't the USA I often do or I wouldn't get through. A more narrow road with cars parked either side would mean no through route if I should worry about opening doors. Now add a cycle to that scenario on a road of 0.5Km, we have them here. That would be one hell of a wait to not upset the slower moving cyclist.

 

[EmilysDad]

Today's near miss, I had to slam on my brakes and come to a halt to miss this one... ....

maybe you were going too fast for the road ... impossible to know/guess from the photo's

 

[rf065]

maybe you were going too fast for the road ... impossible to know/guess from the photo's

I was thinking the same, the car is visible at the give way line, it is obvious their vision is blocked by the parked cars while the cyclist is still some distance away. I think I would have been on the brakes at that point and not waited till the car pulled out, 'cause you just know that's what it's going to do.

Russ

 

[47p2]

18.8mph, saw the car and the driver saw me but she just decided to keep coming out, bet she wouldn't have done that if it was a 44 tonne truck

 

[Westheath]

Today's near miss, I had to slam on my brakes and come to a halt to miss this one...

Image 2 shows its your responsibility to dictate your safety as the car drivers view is limited.

Slow down and allow the car to pull out as in pic 3 its committed to the maneuver and your road position shows plenty of room to your left.

Common sense again would have been the better option rather than dramatizing a everyday traffic occurrence be it bike, car, truck etc etc.

imho

 

[L John]

The car shouldn't have pulled out with you approaching.
The cars shouldn't have been parked so close to the junction.
The cars shouldn't have been parked on the kerb.
You were well within your rights to ride at that speed.

When it all goes wrong, who gets a mark on the wing and who ends up eating tarmac?

If it was a good clear road, how fast would you have been going?
Not much more I guess.
Why not slow down a bit more in areas that are clearly more of a risk to cyclists and enjoy the ride instead of seeing how many idiots you get on your camera?