Turning Japanese...

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jpbp200

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How anyone could allow their choice of car to be made on the basis of which salesman did or did not phone back is quite beyond me.

Sour grapes me thinks.
 

david arthur

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Hi ,

My local MB dealer in Nottingham, is owned by inch-scape, hope i have spelt it correctly. Thats where my E211 came from, i thought i may get an invitation to the Launce of the new E class being mine is now 6 years old.

But not an invitation in site, even after i called in prior to Launce for a brochure. No body asked that important question, who are you, and can i have your telephone number and address, or do you have a Mercedes.

I think the main dealers think the car will sell its self, but in these austere days they may well have a shock.:eek:
 

keith100

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w204 c300 2008 (Gone)
Don't think many people regretted buying a Honda.

I quite understand your reluctance to use the only practical dealer after a bad first contact. (I certainly wouldn't drive 100 miles for service/warranty, either).

I have found over the years that indifferent service isn't usually just that one guy you meet first, either - it usually reflects the attitude of management, and can infect all departments. Best avoided.
 

television

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Hi ,

My local MB dealer in Nottingham, is owned by inch-scape, hope i have spelt it correctly. Thats where my E211 came from, i thought i may get an invitation to the Launce of the new E class being mine is now 6 years old.

But not an invitation in site, even after i called in prior to Launce for a brochure. No body asked that important question, who are you, and can i have your telephone number and address, or do you have a Mercedes.

I think the main dealers think the car will sell its self, but in these austere days they may well have a shock.:eek:

Yes it is amazing that the dealers with this outlook still exist, and we have heard it so many times before
 

roofless

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Hello, I am Ling. Thanks for comments. I notice people visiting my website from this discussion. :)

I will say there are (generally) two types of Mercedes dealers. One is the entrepreneurial dealer who fights like hell to gain customers and sell cars (and does not believe that the star on the bonnet gives them magical powers). The second are the ones who sit back, and these include the "MI" dealers - "Manufacturer Investment". This translates to dealers who are owned (and subsidised) by MBUK and exist because they need a presence and an independent cannot make it pay in a certain location. How embarrassing if they have dozens of "open points" across the UK? So, they pay for the dealers themselves. They don't like this to be publicised. The poor entrepreneurial dealers have to compete against these subsidised (almost state-run monopoly) operations in the next-door territory who are there just to fill a gap that can't be filled by a profitable privately-owned dealer.

Those "MI" dealers tend to have quite a different agenda from genuine businesses. It is not always true, as they are run by real people who differ, but the trend is certainly true. This is also true of other makes. These MI dealers respond to what the manufacturer wants to sell (as they own them) not what the public wants to buy. The focus is on units, not customers. Of course, they have the veneer of service, and many will give a good service. But the objective is manufacturer commerciality.

I deal with some very aggressive independent suppliers of MB (and other brands) and it is always the independently owned ones who try harder. I would say: support the independently owned ones with your business.

I would say, you should always ask "who owns this dealership" and walk away if it is an MI. Notably some manufacturers deliberately hide their MI dealers - eg Peugeot use "Robins and Day" when in effect it should be "Peugeot UK". At least it rhymes :) This is deliberately to mislead the public into thinking their company-owned dealers are independent.

I have had big trouble from Merc, who threatened me 2 months ago with court for using the star and the word "Mercedes". Can you believe that? They said I was "passing off" as a dealer! Anyone who has visited my website would have no thought that that was the case and they backed off when I told then the Judge would laugh them out of High Court. But they do try and bully me, and I have heard of unofficial "blacklists" preventing supply (via me), but I do not have proof so I would add these are alleged. This is all so ironic, as I have sold tons of MB and Smartie cars for them.

The big problem (for dealers) is overheads. Look at any Merc dealer (and others to the same extent - BMW, and lesser extent - eg Honda etc) and you can stand and wonder what they need to turnover every day just to pay the rates and switch on the lights, swan about in demos, air-condition and heat the massively inefficient hangar buildings, pay stocking loans, have cafes and dozens of staff etc. Some dealerships are grander than any other retail experience - just to sell a few cars. Retail customers pay these massive bills.

The truth is that these brand-new UK cars (once driven away) are exactly the same wherever they are bought.

Staffing is hard, particularly lately (low new car demand) as they want "professionals" but they want them to work unsociable hours; weekends and daily until 8pm. Highly commission based, no proper training and the only perk is a nice Merc demo to be seen in. What kind of life is that? What security when the market is up and down like a prostitute knickers? 50% sales = 50% pay. Which top-level salesman would choose to work in car industry? So, the dealers can only get transient disaffected staff whose commission grinds to a halt when cars stop selling (after last August). Cars have always been the worst-service retail sector. Put on a suit and anyone can become a car salesman. It shows.

To give you an idea how bad it has been for some dealer, last February I delivered more new cars (myself, all types) than the whole of the Lexus UK dealer network managed put together. How they pay the bills on £1m dealerships when the property equity declines, I don't know? If you have seen a Lexus dealer (similar glitz to MB and BMW), then try to work out how they survive with a one-trick donkey product line selling just a few new cars a month each?

Instead, the answer will be, in time, multi-franchise outlets with less glitz and overhead, stop pretending that these cars are crown jewels and realise that they are consumer goods. More types of direct outlets like mine where you simply order a car and it arrives with no fuss and no extra costs.

I'm glad someone found a cheaper deal than I had at the time on that Honda; I can only do human achievements, I am not superhuman. Competition is good, it keeps me sharp (unlike the manufacturers and dealers who want to stop me competing). Occasionally a switched-on dealer will beat me. I can't always get every cheapest deal with the blacklisting and politics that goes on. I decided a long time ago to have a standard margin, so whether you order a GL-Class or a Fiesta from me, I treat them all as the same item, like a can of beans. Same margin.

But... that these massive organisations like MBUK (another part of the problem, why such a massive operation with layers of staff just to move a few cars?) above dealer level need to cut their own overheads, slim and get real. Give customers what they want. People want the cars, not a showroom to rival Saddam's Presidential Palace. People want service. The big companies miss the trick sometimes, eh?
am i correct in thinking that after you sell a car EG a mercedes the buyer then deals with a mb dealer for service needs & warranty ect & you take the money & run :lol:
 

Alex M Grieve

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B Class d200 Sport Premium Plus (66)
Hope you don't mind me joining in this discussion, but this is "response time" thing is one area where the internet allows very easy measurement, for free. Just takes a bit of coding. Simple. I am really fascinated by this subject and why others don't explore it.

However, no one else AT ALL (in the UK motor industry) measures it, apart from me.

Why shouldn't you get almost IMMEDIATE responses?

There is no reason why manufacturers and car dealers (or for that matter many other businesses) should not be able to provide this info of service standard times - except they refuse to do it.

My guess is it would be embarrassing.

I am very open. I am very, very interested in any ideas that I can use to make more info that is useful to customers. Would be so happy to collaborate on any project to develop this.

Hi Ling.

What an excellent post. I really mentioned response time in order to illustrate that non response is completely unacceptable and that, not only is a response required but speed and effectiveness response is a measurable and useful business metric. "What gets measured gets managed" - I can just hear Dosco saying it. Followed by "If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there".

And we have not yet mentioned the issue of common courtesy. Not returning a personal call is bad manners. Not returning a business call is suicide.

Anyone who is prepared to accept non returned calls deserves to have their pockets picked, and the poor service which will no doubt result.

I have been in many car dealerships recently. No one is too busy and they all want to ensure I am being looked after and they all want to sell me something. In this climate, there is no excuse for failure to return a call.

And if that dealership is the one which will provide the eventual Full Manufacturer's Service History (at a premium) - what do you think that is worth?
 

roofless

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w124 e220 estate
Hi Ling.

What an excellent post. I really mentioned response time in order to illustrate that non response is completely unacceptable and that, not only is a response required but speed and effectiveness response is a measurable and useful business metric. "What gets measured gets managed" - I can just hear Dosco saying it. Followed by "If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there".

And we have not yet mentioned the issue of common courtesy. Not returning a personal call is bad manners. Not returning a business call is suicide.

Anyone who is prepared to accept non returned calls deserves to have their pockets picked, and the poor service which will no doubt result.

I have been in many car dealerships recently. No one is too busy and they all want to ensure I am being looked after and they all want to sell me something. In this climate, there is no excuse for failure to return a call.

And if that dealership is the one which will provide the eventual Full Manufacturer's Service History (at a premium) - what do you think that is worth?
TANSTAAFL alex :D
 

mikestrivens

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This problem is not confined to car dealers. I am in the process of commissioning a new kitchen and 2 bathrooms for my house. I am prepared to spend up to £35k. I have approached about 5 different kitchen and bathroom design outlets and only one has bothered to contact me and work with me on the design. Needless to say he has got the job.
 

hawk20

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Would be interesting to see a list of these "Manufacturer Investment" MB dealers.

I don't agree one bit with the analysis. The idea that MB only provide unprofitable infill dealers where nobody else will go is just plain wrong. MB own many, many profitable dealerships (mainly inside the M25 ring). They have kept independents like Southampton, Winchester, Chichester, and Portsmouth dealers near me because those have stayed up to scratch and been prepared to meet the exacting standards which MB impose.

Talking of customer service and phoning or e-mailing back, I asked Ling for a quote on an E class and they never came back to me. So I bought from an MB dealer who was excellent (Wakefield).
 

hawk20

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Hello, I am Ling.
I will say there are (generally) two types of Mercedes dealers. One is the entrepreneurial dealer who fights like hell to gain customers and sell cars (and does not believe that the star on the bonnet gives them magical powers). The second are the ones who sit back, and these include the "MI" dealers - "Manufacturer Investment". This translates to dealers who are owned (and subsidised) by MBUK and exist because they need a presence and an independent cannot make it pay in a certain location. How embarrassing if they have dozens of "open points" across the UK? So, they pay for the dealers themselves. They don't like this to be publicised. The poor entrepreneurial dealers have to compete against these subsidised (almost state-run monopoly) operations in the next-door territory who are there just to fill a gap that can't be filled by a profitable privately-owned dealer.

This is the analysis which I think is quite incorrect.
 

cj...

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I think that this is pretty accurate to be honest.

In the corporate /leasing market it is not uncommon at all for the privately owned dealers to offer a deal using all the manufacture bonus available on the car plus the dealer margin, only to be blown out of the water by an M.I dealer who will then deny that they have a bigger pot of gold to play play with in order to enhance the deal.
I understand that as a manufacture they obviously have more funds/options available to them but given the investment made by the non M.I dealers it is totally wrong to expect them to live with this.
It used to be a case of you might do a deal for nothing to get the back end bonus,now you cannot even secure a deal despite giving it all away.

Talk about an un-level playing field.
 

Rory

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am i correct in thinking that after you sell a car EG a mercedes the buyer then deals with a mb dealer for service needs & warranty ect & you take the money & run :lol:

Just like a dealership salesman then?
 

mattsurf

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I have contacted Ling before - didn't do the deal this time... however, next time I will go to Ling again. Everyone is different, some people want the feel good factor of buying from a glitzy showroom, personally I like the excellent communication from Ling and feel that her team is completely focused on my requirements. I like the fact this if her team cannot get an answer back within the hour, they always email to let me know what they are doing. For me personally, I will buy a car based on price and service.

ling, great to see you on this we site. Get some great Mercedes deals and I will certainly buy from you. By the way, I have not changed my car yet, so still in the market, just can't find one that I like, currently thinking of waiting for a new E250 estate this autumn
 

Blobcat

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For me personally, I will buy a car based on price and service.
Agreed, leasing hasn't been appropriate for me I do however search anywhere in the country for the right car. I do give my local dealer an opportunity to compete I won't however pay them a premium for exactly the same car.
 

Rory

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It is interesting you mention the M25 because inside that area is where most manufacturers struggle to find franchisees for their brands. This is due to operational cost and overheads like rent/rates and staff costs are higher.

Infinti (Honda's version of Toyota's Lexus) are coming to the UK and apparently they engaged people to find them five sites within the M25 with a total budget of £10M. Commerical Surveyors thought their plan was hilarious.

They've ended up with one site in Reading and they're having a bit of think about what to do next.


I've said it before, but the new car sales model is seriously screwed in the UK. Very few people (apart from hawk20) want these glass palaces.
 

roofless

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Of course you use a MB dealer for warranty, but generally you can use any registered garage for servicing as long as they use MB quality parts.

"Take the money and run" is something I don't recognise. If you take the time to read some of my 1300 testimonials (published fully attributed), you will see that I spend a lot of time to look after customers. Of course, I don't have workshops :)

For instance, if you bought the car (at the best price you can find) from a (say) Yorkshire MB dealer and yet you live in (say) Swindon (and use your local Swindon dealer for servicing), would you accuse that Yorkshire MB dealer of "taking the money and running"? Or would you prefer some cartel where you have to buy/contract hire at some artificially high, fixed price, only from a dealer? Then you could be happy that the dealers retain maximum profit to assist the lifestyle of their owners.

I am sure that provides a much better ownership experience :) After all, they probably give you custard creams in the showroom, free of charge :)))

Personally, I like to see a competitive environment. jpbp200 may not have had such a good deal on the Accord without people like me putting extra pressure on dealers. Who knows?
can you get a MB to the spec the buyer wants inc extras & choice of color & int trim ect ......basically provide the kind of service a dealer can ? ......this might sound harsh but a lot of time & money is invested in the dealer networks only for parasites to live of there back .......... this is only my view NOT a personal attack :D
 

hawk20

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Just like a dealership salesman then?

No. Not the same as a dealership at all. They provide service and aftercare. And it is they who employ the salesman so you cannot fairly separate them.
 

Rory

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No. Not the same as a dealership at all. They provide service and aftercare. And it is they who employ the salesman so you cannot fairly separate them.

Try calling a salesman if you have a problem. I did, and it was with Mercedes. He couldn't get rid of me quick enough. So once you separate sales and after-sales, the relationship is pointless.


In the US, the premium brands try to encourage one point of contact so that the salesman builds a strong relationship with his customers but it hasn't really worked even with the different culture over there - you'd be meeting the MB salesman at your kids local school football matches, playing golf with him, etc.
 

Rory

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can you get a MB to the spec the buyer wants inc extras & choice of color & int trim ect .

If you want a very loaded car then MB tends not to be a good choice for lease deals (which is what Ling majors on) as the cost of the options bumps up the lease a lot.

MB had to introduce a special business version of the last E Class as company car buyers found the car too basic and options pushed it over their budget.

A car that's well equipped in the first place, such as a Jaguar XF (which is beating the new E Class in road test) would probably be a better choice.
 


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