Turning Japanese...

roofless

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w124 e220 estate
I can get ones with all the extras, but, most of the time this is not what my customers want.

The danger of ordering a fully loaded car is one of cancellation.

I prefer to deal in the 50% of cars that are more or less standard. Gone are the days when Merc has no kit. I can however get whatever colour etc people want. Although everyone is limited to the cars in the system - they cannot be resprayed. I am happy to factory order if you are happy to wait. Funny colours would probably be refused, but that is more the dealer than me.

Occasionally I am selling physical cars, so that precludes any options.

How am I a parasite, if I am supplying happy dealers with orders for happy customers (at a cost cheaper than the dealers would supply, and cheaper than the customers can usually get)? Mercs are my 5th most popular cars, I have done 17 C Class over the past month and a half, plus loads of others.

No offence taken. I would say the parasitic element is the massive cost base that sucks the lifeblood out of dealers like a leech. I have never had a Merc dealer refuse orders from me, and with my best dealers I give so much business I get the first sniff on the stock. I would not call that parasitic, more like I am an extra route to market in times like these when they have been 40% down on sales.
i see your service as a market stall approach to selling & this is the part i see as wrong because you simply sell of the shelf cars & don't provide the back up or service all the work is done by the dealer re after sales thou looking at your www bombsite :lol: i see a lack of professionalism shown so it's probably a good thing you don't .........but you do take criticism well :D
 

hawk20

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ML250 BlueTEC Sport
I've said it before, but the new car sales model is seriously screwed in the UK. Very few people (apart from hawk20) want these glass palaces.

I have never said I want glass palaces. But I do want dealers to survive and prosper and have proper showrooms to show off the MB cars. And I do want them to have service departments with people manufacturer trained in the complexities of modern MBs. And to have all the modern equipment that proper servicing and repair requires. Unlike internet sites who offer no facilities at all.

I certainly expect the facilities to reflect the upmarket nature of the product -part of the pleasure of ownership.
 
P

PanzerMcGrory

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I have never heard of Ling and have no need to look at his website but I think he is getting a bit of an unwarranted kicking for a reasons that escapes me :confused:

I think Alex should come out of retirement to surgically remove some members from MBUKs rear end ;)

When i want a car i look for the cheapest best deal i can get whoever is selling it and usually travel quite a distance for the motor im purchasing the latest being a 1000 miles round trip to Winchester MB.

I will probably never be in Winchester again in my life so they provided a service no different to Ling as far as i can see, though after travelling 500 miles they then turned out to be lying conmen who thought they could try and fleece some more money out of me.

I will use MB Glasgow until my warranty runs out and then for purely financial reasons i will use an indie from then on.

I have said on numerous occations people should not be sucked into this garbage that MB spout about having a full service history with them, I have never had a saleman even look at my service book when i have traded cars in.

The only people who i have had looking at service books are private buyers and the extra expence of getting your car stamped at a main dealer does not get recouped in my experience.
 

hawk20

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ML250 BlueTEC Sport
Basic servicing with an MB dealer costs me just over 2p per mile. Small part of the cost of ownership nowadays.

I want dealers just as much as I want shops. I don't buy off the internet and have no desire to do so. Freedom of choice, surely?

My dealer happens to be good and to look after me well and my brother and my daughter too. And we are all happy with the service so far. Am I supposed to abuse him just because others don't like their local dealers?
 
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jberks

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Jaguar XF 3.0 S, LR Freelander 2, Fiat 500 & Fiat Panda
Like many people I'm a bit jeckle and Hyde on this subject. I like the shiny palaces, I like the fact that I can test drive a few different models before chosing the engine/spec I want. I like the sit down with the salesman and haggle experience, the coffee and the whole 'event' feel of a purchase.
But - I also want a good deal.
By offering the lowest prices, people like Ling keep dealers in check. They can't go around charging too much more for their cars or we'd all migrate over to the internet. Personally I'm happy to pay a few quid for the dealer experience but at the same time, sorry Hawk, but my experience doesn't really tally with the whole 'backup' idea.
I know when I bought my E, sure they were all over me until I drove out of the forecourt. When I found a piece of trim missing the next day, I called the salesman. Oddly I couldn't get hold of him ;-). I called the service dept who wanted me to book in so they could inspect it (their last inspection clearly wasn't up to much!). My 'don't be so silly, take my word for it and order the part' argument fell on deaf ears and in the end I had to call in and make a fuss.
Conversely, I was happy I'd bought from a dealer when my 1 day old Audi blew up. Had it been bought as an import (as I was tempted to do at the time ) I'd have been forced to accept a repair (new engine) from a dealership that didn't know me from Adam and owed me no allegiance.. As it was, whilst i knew it wasn't their fault, i could 'blame' the dealer, effectively forcing the dealer to buy it back and supply me with a new replacement, so it's not true to say there is no benefit.

With Ling, you get less luxury and less 'buying experience' but you also get a better price. You pays your money and all that. I doubt dealers lose money supplying Ling. They may not make the profit they would if we walked through the door but then they don't have the overhead in the sale either. It took a salesman the best part of a day to make my sale. they miss that expense. Actually, as has been said, the dealers get stuck with stock they don't want. Ling is a very useful outlet for that stock I suspect.

So long as the balance remains - there is no problem. The issue comes if most sales move onto the internet. Even then, whilst they may not sell many cars, they still have to service them and remain a point of contact between the manufacturer and the customer. So, perhaps the model will change, with manufacturer's reps replacing salesmen and showrooms becoming just that, somewhere to see the latest models and have a test drive. You buy over the internet. They've been talking about such a model for white goods for a while now and there's no real reason it couldn't happen with cars too - in time. For now though, provided the premium isn't too great, I'll stick to dealerships. My money, my choice.
 

Myros

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R107, S211, R170, C219
all my dealer ever gets out of me is the cost of parts

and that is enough in my opinion, with a stable of MBs to run.
£105+vat for a bolt on the SL, which had my old man been alive, he could have made in an hour or two and would only have charged a complete stranger the cost of materials (under £10) and something for his trouble, probably £20 the lot.

I do partake of the biscuits and coffee and fruit juice, and read the mags, and generally make myself at home. the service manager treats me to lots of courtesy, but he is anice chap anyway, and the parts team practically invite me to the christmas do.
But I won't buy a car from them, and probably won't have a service there either.
I know I have paid for their hospitality when their Mann + Hummel pollen filter costs £19, and the motor factor charges £13 for the same item.

They do seem to try at my local outlet, and I'm grateful for that. Finances and my choice of cars mean I end up buying somewhere else though.
Henry Ford knew what he was onto when he said he didn't make profits on cars, but he raked it on parts.
 

roofless

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w124 e220 estate
she looks like the wee bird who sells the DVDs three for a tenner round the building sites in glasgow:lol:
 

roofless

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w124 e220 estate
Thanks :) DVDs indeed.

To all the other replies above, I generally agree. It is the choice. 10 years ago you would not have this choice. In 10 years you will have far more choice.

Just be clear: everything at a dealer has to be paid for by the customer :) So eat loads of those FREE biscuits!

Re the servicing - they do "have to" do it, but they LOVE it, it is extremely profitable, same with the warranty work. So don't worry about "buying" elsewhere and taking to your local dealer, they will welcome you with open arms.

I agree imports can be dodgy, but they have died with the rise in Euro and I have never sold imports (in the sense of non-manufacturer authorised cars). Of course all MBs are imported in the strict sense.

By their strict "standards" the manufacturers and dealers leave a massive hole open in sales, and it is so true that even if you just use the internet to price-check you can save a massive amount.

It is all freedom of choice, I completely agree, and that is very good!
you do look like her thou :D
 

roofless

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w124 e220 estate
i only buy the cartoons :D the adult films make me feel self conscious
 

hawk20

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ML250 BlueTEC Sport
I wish people would get their facts straight. Dealers do not make loads of money on servicing or on sales. MB figures suggest they make net of all costs about half a per cent on turnover. That is why so many have closed.

Internet competition and idiotic discounting has driven margins to tiny levels. Like JBerks I enjoy visiting my local dealer and browsing; enjoy going to launches, and enjoy borrowing different cars to try them out.

I also notice that the discounts on the internet especially from DrivetheDeal.com are often as big as the total margin given to the dealer. Long term this cannot continue if we want dealers and showrooms and parts departments and service departments to survive.
 

mattsurf

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I agree 100% with Ling - OK some people like Hawk will be very disappointed when the dealers close but most won't even notice.

As for servicing - my experience and that of many people on this site is that Local Indis are far better, far cheaper and far friendlier than the average dealer. You also get the impression that Indis are on the whole a great deal more experienced than your average dealer tech

I recently wanted to look at a car (Non Mercedes I may add) I had cash in my pocket and was a serious buyer with 30k to spend - walked into the showroom one Saturday - "Sorry sir our business manager uses that car and he doesn't work on Saturday, can you come back on Monday" No I f****** can't come back on Monday - I am working earning the money to purchase the thing! This is an example of unbelievable stupidity and poor customer service on the part of the garage - I wonder how many others do this, as it is actually the second time that this has happened to me in the past 6 months (and I have only looked at 4 cars)

My wife runs a toy shop, we have to compete with the Internet, Supermarkets, ebay, amazon etc, we have to live with competition and ensure that costs are managed and that we offer a level of personal service that gives us a competetive advantage. I am sorry Hawk, but these discounters have every right to survive and thrive.

Ling set up a business in a massively competetive market - you have to admire the success that she has had. I cannot imagine how many hours and sleepless nights Ling must have put into building her business. I would also suspect that she is comming under pressure and receiving threats from the motor trade.

Just consider the posts on our site that Ling has made recently - what brilliant marketing, but this must really be taking some time. I would suggest that she is doing the same on other forums

When I change my car, I will use Ling if she is competetive on price - you never know I may even pay slightly more for a car from her as I admire the work that she is doing

By the way - I recently looked at a Citroen, the garage was a pretty shabby affair in a non to smart part of Southampton - however, the service was excellent and the dealer couldn't be more helful. In fact the lease costs were within £2 of Ling - and I didn't even mention that I had other quotes, which suggests that he knew the market well. The fact that my instant coffee came in a chipped mug didn't harm the experience at all, unfortunately my wife didn't like the car! The local Mercedes dealer won't even return my calls
 

jberks

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Jaguar XF 3.0 S, LR Freelander 2, Fiat 500 & Fiat Panda
I'm not saying I know the answers but,
the piece of the puzzle we miss here is the whole 'Brand' concept.
All firms spend fortunes creating a brand image, just as you do for your firm. You set up your site and use your personality to give a certain image for your firm. You've chosen the fun, no nonsense style as far as I can see and it works well and good luck to you.

But, MB are all about 'status' and 'quality'. It transceds their advertising, their products and their outlets. Walk from a Ford dealer to Merc one and it's obvious. I'm not arguing that this model can last, the cracks are already appearing, but by promoting the whole luxury and pamperred feel in their showrooms, they're simply playing to their brand ideals. Thats a hard thing to do on a budget.

I walked into the Leeds Lexus dealer a few years back, (they were next door to the merc dealer at the time). The whole feel was basic and functional but nothing more. The car felt like a flashed up Toyota. The feel worked perfectly for the toyotas but cheapened the lexus - hence they've now built a lexus department completely separate.
Thats because they primarily sold Toyotas and a merc feel in the showroom would have scared off their core customer to whom price is a far more overriding concern than make. Most will swap happily between a Meganne, focus or Civic depending on which seems the best value at the time. Personal appeal will sway but not make the decision.

Merc buyers tend to be different. They know that what they're buying isn't the greatest value in the world and that, for 1/2 of the money, they could get 75% of the car by going to Toyota/Ford etc and buying their top model, but still we go to Merc and spend over the odds. We do this because a) (lets be honest) we can and b) we've reached a financial level where we can afford to make a more emotional decsion. (MB has one of the largest brand loyalty levels I belive - hence many of us are on our 3rd etc) If we wanted a Jag or BM, we'd get one. A price differential may bother us, but it won't sway our decision.

When I bought my E class, I could have had an S type. Its a good car and certainly cheaper but I wanted an E class so that was it. It wasn't what car can I get for my budget, it was what E class can I get for my budget and do I buy new or used. The aspirational feel of the brand is strong - when was the last time you heard of a Ford being mentioned in a rap song! I get comments from virtual strangers about the car. I wouldn't if it was a loaded mondeo. Its because it's a desirable thing. Not the rational reason I bought it but it was a factor, at least for the brand decision, if I'm truly honest. Many will say they're not influenced, but thats just them either not realising it, or else kidding themselves. As any psycologist will tell you, you can't avoid being influenced, its in our genes and brands spend millions ensuring they press the right buttons.

Pack all these different brand images into the same building and I wonder what the effect would be. MB would want a fancy entrance and block paved car park, Skoda would want a no nonsense sliding door and a tarmac car park ....
Hard to reconcile.
 

Alex M Grieve

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B Class d200 Sport Premium Plus (66)
I think Alex should come out of retirement to surgically remove some members from MBUKs rear end ;)

Don, you have the happy knack of cutting right to the heart of the matter. I would probably try a powerful laxative before embarking on surgery, but I agree that some do seem severly impacted!

I have said on numerous occations people should not be sucked into this garbage that MB spout about having a full service history with them, I have never had a saleman even look at my service book when i have traded cars in.

Me neither.

The only people who i have had looking at service books are private buyers and the extra expence of getting your car stamped at a main dealer does not get recouped in my experience.

Agreed.

There is space in the market for all of us. I used to be a loyal SAAB owner, but was eventually let down by weak service and rising prices.

I was then a Peugeot fan (diesels) for a number of years, but was let down by poor service in one locality.

I went through the same evolution with MB, but when standards were questionable and prices fanciful. I made a lateral move to Indies, and am still there.

It is all very complex, but good providers earn respect, and keep customers. It is not just a function of the marble atrium, or Mobilo Life. It is matter of fact knowing what you are doing, doing what you say you will do, getting the job right, getting the price right.

And yes, it does involve returning phone calls!
 

roofless

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w124 e220 estate
Soon you might buy your new car at tesco or sainsbury's [if you can get parked ] only to deal with the girl at the fag counter :lol: just think you can get a car loan & insurance all in one BRILLIANT
 

turbopete

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2017 '17' Ford Mondeo 2.0TDCi ST Line X 180 (sorry)
I walked into the Leeds Lexus dealer a few years back, (they were next door to the merc dealer at the time). The whole feel was basic and functional but nothing more. The car felt like a flashed up Toyota.

thats because thats exactly what they are! very nice flashed up toyota's but flashed up toyota's all the same!
 

Rory

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2005 C270CDi Avantgarde Estate. Bought 2005, sold 2022.
I wish people would get their facts straight. Dealers do not make loads of money on servicing or on sales. MB figures suggest they make net of all costs about half a per cent on turnover. That is why so many have closed.
They do make loads of money of sales and servicing. The problem is that the dealership costs are insane which is why their net profit is so low. Ling has mentioned many of the reasons why that is.

Years ago running a small franchised dealership was almost a licence to print money. I know someone who owned such a dealership. He drove a Ferrari and lived in *massive* house. Then things started to get "corporate" and he sold up just before he would have gone bust.

I also notice that the discounts on the internet especially from DrivetheDeal.com are often as big as the total margin given to the dealer.
That's because margin is only part of the story. Significant dealer profit on sales comes from back-end bonuses. You know that.
 

hawk20

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That's because margin is only part of the story. Significant dealer profit on sales comes from back-end bonuses. You know that.

Indeed I do and if you had followed the excellent and informative postings from DC Insider you too would know that the discounts on line often equal all the dealer's margin including the back end bonuses. That is a major reason why dealers now make so little money in the UK.
 

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