Uneven steering feel

[Botus]

cars should have the same geometry side to side when on a lock... very rarely looked in to now... but sounds to me that this is what the guy was trying when he first played and you said if felt correct / the best it had afterwards.

he could have been trying to set it the same side to side, but this (as you found) could mean the steering wheel centre is off whack. In the old days you just moved the wheel on the column to sort it. But these days with airbags and ESP there more fun to be had. With most "clock springs" on Merc not adjustable they come set right in the box and you fit as is to the column and that's correct. So I get why he changed back after the "test" (on some fords you can't even move the wheel on the column, as its not splined and the ESP is set in the middle using software).

One of the recent Merc 4 x 4 is a disaster with incorrect geometry for RHD cars, (I can never remember if GLA or GLC) and the solution was to put winter tyres on so they complained less.... high tech engineering (it came about after they'd bodged up the suspension as they not correctly considered designing the body shell to accommodate LHD or RHD steering position). Not heard this on other models and if its not a 4 x 4, then even less likely to be an issue on yours

there was another guy with an AMG spec car complaining just recently - run flat tyres and silly sized alloys will make it more susceptible to fun like this.

 

[Mike2002]

Well the local guy did it perfectly. It is better but certainly not normal. I went into the Mercedes dealer and kicked up a right stink. Demanded a copy of the latest technician report. Turns out they took the steering wheel off and moved the wheel across. That would certainly explain the strange behaviour and why no one can get it right despite aligning it. I asked him if that's in the official Mercedes Benz Workshop manual and he claimed that it was but I think he was talking ****. Unfortunately the guy I spoke to wasn't a technician so didn't really get why I thought that doing that was a stupid idea. It's booked back on end of July for another look. Do you guys think that this is reason for a complaint?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

[QUOTE="Mike2002, post: 1827362, member: 104005" Do you guys think that this is reason for a complaint?[/QUOTE]

Of course just recite their own mantra at them ‘The best or nothing’ - off kilter steering and feel is a problem I would want sorted out they just don’t want MB on their back over warranty claims which MB may consider ‘subjective issues’ which of course it isn’t

 

[LostKiwi]

Well the local guy did it perfectly. It is better but certainly not normal. I went into the Mercedes dealer and kicked up a right stink. Demanded a copy of the latest technician report. Turns out they took the steering wheel off and moved the wheel across. That would certainly explain the strange behaviour and why no one can get it right despite aligning it. I asked him if that's in the official Mercedes Benz Workshop manual and he claimed that it was but I think he was talking ****. Unfortunately the guy I spoke to wasn't a technician so didn't really get why I thought that doing that was a stupid idea. It's booked back on end of July for another look. Do you guys think that this is reason for a complaint?

Absolutely.
Suspension and steering is designed around everything being at a midpoint in the straight ahead position.
If the rack is not centred the track rods have to take up the difference. This makes one longer than the other hence they will move through different arcs on bump or body roll thus affecting alignment (the shorter arm will cause more movement as it swings through an arc). In extreme cases it can introduce bump steer where the car moves off line when encountering a bump in the road.
When you turn the steering Ackermann angles come into play. Off centred rack messes these angles up again creating alignment issues where the wheels no longer move the amount the designer intended again upsetting alignment.
So whilst alignment in the static straight ahead condition may be correct if the rack is off centre it will be incorrect under all other conditions.
Finally electric power steering is designed to operate correctly only when the rack is central at the straight ahead position. In any other position the electric assistance will become involved upsetting the feel.

 

[Mike2002]

It fully explains the behavior of the car and why it is not something that shows up on whee alignment print outs but the guy who I spoke to this morning just wasn't getting it. I have raised a complaint with Mercedes Benz UK and asked them to clarify if removing the steering wheel and replacing it in a different orientation is something that their workshop manual suggests. I can't believe that a main dealer for a brand like Mercedes would do something so idiotic.

 

[LostKiwi]

It won't show on alignment machines because the fundamental assumption is that the steering wheel is straight and marks the central position of the rack. The assumption being the car was set up correctly at the factory.
It's not until you dive deeper you can determine what's happened. It also requires some understanding of suspension geometry and the interaction of components.

 

[Mike2002]

I'm slightly ****ed with the second dealer for not picking up on it. I have access to a copy of WIS and it says that the rack should be centered prior to alignment by aligning the notches on the steering column and the rack itself (i.e inspecting under the car). I assume that the second dealer did not do this and therefore did not pick up an issue with the steering wheel being moved. I wouldn't care so much if they didn't claim alignment was a 4 hour job that costs about £300, at that price I'd expect the job to be done by the book.

 

[Mike2002]

The car was inspected again by the main dealer where I bought the car. Standard reply again. "We've test-driven it and even looked underneath it for you and it all seems ok and even if what you were describing was true, we wouldn't know what to adjust anyway". They have now changed their story and claim the steering wheel was never removed and it only underwent a toe adjustment. I seem to have a hit a brick wall with the Mercedes Benz complaints process, the previous complaint was closed 3 days prior to the car even being inspected for the final time. When I questioned how a complaint regarding a mechanical problem could be closed 3 days before the car even being inspected they said this was standard procedure. I emailed the finance company to raise a complaint with them and they have ignored the email for the best part of 3 weeks.

Does anyone else feel that this is a characteristic of this make/model of car because I am seriously starting to think that this is just normal for an E class and nothing can be done about it. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to escalate this further?

 

[LostKiwi]

"We've test-driven it and even looked underneath it for you and it all seems ok and even if what you were describing was true, we wouldn't know what to adjust anyway".

Seriously? They don't know how to center the rack correctly?

I learnt how to do that when I was 18... .

 

[Mike2002]

Well they now claim that the rack/steering was not adjusted by them even though they previously said it was. The fundamental issue I'm having is that they will not accept there is a problem when they test drive the car and based on that premise they will not then make any real effort investigating the issue.

 

[LostKiwi]

Check rack centering yourself.
Turn full lock one way. Mark the top if the steering wheel.
Turn full lock other way and mark the top of the wheel. Return to straight ahead and mark the top of the wheel.

Measure from the last mark to each of previous 2 marks. They should be near enough the same measurement.

 

[Janchee]

Well they now claim that the rack/steering was not adjusted by them even though they previously said it was. The fundamental issue I'm having is that they will not accept there is a problem when they test drive the car and based on that premise they will not then make any real effort investigating the issue.

Sorry to hear of your troubles Mike2002. Realistically, the techs that service the Mercedes are just young guys out of college following paperwork. The local dealer techs rarely get involved with diagnostics and if it does, they get Mercedes involved to send in a specialist (they have to call in a ‘specialist’ to take brake run out readings...). This will be a cost and it’s probably why they’re not doing much about it.

First option is - can all the northerners put money in a kitty and start a franchise of WIM ??

Second serious option is to take it to somewhere like WIM and get it inspected. It’s going to be a ball-ache I know, but just drive down there and do it. You’ll spend the time and money faffing about with the dealer.

Third serious option is to raise a complaint via something like resolver who is a third-party. Make sure you write down all the Time you’ve spent doing this as it adds up.

Last point is that when you’re going through this again, make sure everything they say is in writing. Wait in the dealership until they’ve sent an email or you’ve got a bit of paper with the exact words they’ve said. Realistically, The majority of people you deal with are office staff. It’s rare to find a service manager who’s actually interested in finding the problem with you and will work with you.

The way businesses are set up is that dealerships are interested in making money and not dealing with these issues. From my last experience of quite a few Mercedes dealerships, it’s pay the money and move on thanks.

 

[Janchee]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Mike2002. Realistically, the techs that service the Mercedes are just young guys out of college following paperwork. The local dealer techs rarely get involved with diagnostics and if it does, they get Mercedes involved to send in a specialist (they have to call in a ‘specialist’ to take brake run out readings...). This will be a cost and it’s probably why they’re not doing much about it.

First option is - can all the northerners put money in a kitty and start a franchise of WIM ??

Second serious option is to take it to somewhere like WIM and get it inspected. It’s going to be a ball-ache I know, but just drive down there and do it. You’ll spend the time and money faffing about with the dealer.

Third serious option is to raise a complaint via something like resolver who is a third-party. Make sure you write down all the Time you’ve spent doing this as it adds up.

Last point is that when you’re going through this again, make sure everything they say is in writing. Wait in the dealership until they’ve sent an email or you’ve got a bit of paper with the exact words they’ve said. Realistically, The majority of people you deal with are office staff. It’s rare to find a service manager who’s actually interested in finding the problem with you and will work with you.

The way businesses are set up is that dealerships are interested in making money and not dealing with these issues. From my last experience of quite a few Mercedes dealerships, it’s pay the money and move on thanks.

Quick edit: THE only way I’ve got dealers to listen is a 1-star google review. It sounds awful but it honestly is the only way you’ll get them to listen. I’m sad about this being an option for such a premium brand but again, most dealerships are just an office that deals with cars

 

[umblecumbuz]

It surprises me that Mercedes still makes steering setups that allow the wheel to be repositioned on the column.

Knowledge of my other cars confirms that the steering wheel will only locate in one position on the column, and the column, at its base, will only locate in one position on the rack. Hence, there is only one possible correct assembly arrangement. The splines both top and bottom of the column have a notch that will only locate when the position is correct.

To my thinking, repositioning the steering wheel on the column to make it seem 'right' is just camouflaging the underying misalignment. Maybe Mercedes could see what was coming!

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

As the fault has been there from delivery it appears to me that the rack(s) were delivered to the factory with the problem and consequently were released by the factory with the steering wheel slightly offset to compensate - I’d live with it as the car drives ok with the wheel slightly offset there is little chance the dealer will change the rack

 

[Mike2002]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Mike2002. Realistically, the techs that service the Mercedes are just young guys out of college following paperwork. The local dealer techs rarely get involved with diagnostics and if it does, they get Mercedes involved to send in a specialist (they have to call in a ‘specialist’ to take brake run out readings...). This will be a cost and it’s probably why they’re not doing much about it.

First option is - can all the northerners put money in a kitty and start a franchise of WIM ??

Second serious option is to take it to somewhere like WIM and get it inspected. It’s going to be a ball-ache I know, but just drive down there and do it. You’ll spend the time and money faffing about with the dealer.

Third serious option is to raise a complaint via something like resolver who is a third-party. Make sure you write down all the Time you’ve spent doing this as it adds up.

Last point is that when you’re going through this again, make sure everything they say is in writing. Wait in the dealership until they’ve sent an email or you’ve got a bit of paper with the exact words they’ve said. Realistically, The majority of people you deal with are office staff. It’s rare to find a service manager who’s actually interested in finding the problem with you and will work with you.

The way businesses are set up is that dealerships are interested in making money and not dealing with these issues. From my last experience of quite a few Mercedes dealerships, it’s pay the money and move on thanks.

Thanks for your advice. I have raised this via resolver with the Stratstone group already and I am waiting to hear back. Unfortunately my local dealer does not ever seem to provide any paperwork for anything they have done, despite asking multiple times both in writing and verbally. Most communication to this point is very one sided, which I suspect will not look good for them if this gets to the stage of arbitration or legal action. I think that my only option will be rejecting the car as no one in Mercedes Benz seems to be taking the issue seriously or have any interest in trying and sort it. There is no one at these main dealers who wants to think outside the box so it is easier to just say there is no problem and fob the customer off. A 5 minute test drove and £150 quid visit to the Hunter machine is the only solution they seem to be offering right now.

I am in the process of arranging in independent inspection of the car which I will use for when this matter is escalated to the financial ombudsmen service. I have resigned myself to the fact it is easier to prove there is a problem with the car than try and find out what the problem is and get it sorted. I am reluctant to let any third party garages do anything to the car that would invalidate any further claims or moves to reject the car.

 

[Mike2002]

Check rack centering yourself.
Turn full lock one way. Mark the top if the steering wheel.
Turn full lock other way and mark the top of the wheel. Return to straight ahead and mark the top of the wheel.

Measure from the last mark to each of previous 2 marks. They should be near enough the same measurement.

Thanks. I will give this a go just to see.

 

[Mike2002]

It surprises me that Mercedes still makes steering setups that allow the wheel to be repositioned on the column.

Knowledge of my other cars confirms that the steering wheel will only locate in one position on the column, and the column, at its base, will only locate in one position on the rack. Hence, there is only one possible correct assembly arrangement. The splines both top and bottom of the column have a notch that will only locate when the position is correct.

To my thinking, repositioning the steering wheel on the column to make it seem 'right' is just camouflaging the underlying misalignment. Maybe Mercedes could see what was coming!

Having watched some videos online of a guy changing his W213 steering wheel the steering column only has marks to indicate the correct orientation. You could in theory stick it on the wrong way because there is nothing to physically stop you doing that. I do suspect that it may be the issue that it came out of the factory wrong or someone has tampered with it since, but I am not willing to take off the airbag and wheel to find out because it will only lead to Mercedes saying that the car was tampered with by someone else.

 

[Mike2002]

As the fault has been there from delivery it appears to me that the rack(s) were delivered to the factory with the problem and consequently were released by the factory with the steering wheel slightly offset to compensate - I’d live with it as the car drives ok with the wheel slightly offset there is little chance the dealer will change the rack

I did wonder about this but obviously I have no way of finding out about this insider information. I find poorly aligned/adjusted/centred steering somewhat distracting and is not even something my ten year old Toyota Corolla suffered from so I feel a bit ****ed off having to live with it when I've paid £40k for a new car.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

I did wonder about this but obviously I have no way of finding out about this insider information. I find poorly aligned/adjusted/centred steering somewhat distracting and is not even something my ten year old Toyota Corolla suffered from so I feel a bit ****ed off having to live with it when I've paid £40k for a new car.

Yes totally agree - I’ve mellowed with age.

Mercedes franchises aren’t interested in solving problems of this nature they need to book the time involved to something and the cause isn’t apparent so they know MBUK will resist any warranty claim. Having tried to resolve the problem with various third parties and spending your own money in the process perhaps it’s time to escalate the problem to MBUK and see what their engineers say I don’t see any other course of action for you but as the car drives ok albeit with a slight steering wheel offset there is no guarantee of success