Veggie powered Mercs

[njpumphrey]

Hi All,

I'm sure that by now most of you will have heard of veggie powered mercs, but I am trying it, and it works brilliantly.

What with the impending oil crisis I started looking into using 100% vegetable oil in my 1982 240TD. A little research told me that no conversion was needed, registration with Customs is free and easy (I have all forms and info if you are interested), and there are mixed benefits for the car. Namely, particulate emissions drop by up to 50%, with no drop in MPG, the engine runs slightly quieter, it is cheaper (even if you buy it fresh from Tescos and pay duty on it it's only 41p/L plus 26p/L Tax) and it is renewable. Personally, I particularly like the fact it is likely to **** of the oil companies :lol:

On the down side it is slightly more sluggish to start on frosty mornings, the smell is not to everyones taste, and if you buy fresh oil there are a lot of bottles to recycle. As yet I haven't found a source of used oil I can filter and cut costs to 26p/L (although I have discovered a number of take-aways in my area that don't change their fryer oil and I will never eat from them again!).

It would be good to get a discussion going again about what models work on straight vegetable oil, and what experiences others have had with their cars or their Customs Departments.

Cheers,

 

[Robby Ackerman]

My Daughter (25-year-old blond) came home recently with a gallon of rancid corn oil asking if I knew how she could properly dispose of it. I suggested she pour it in the fuel tank of her 1983 300D, which she did. A few days later she was in the grocery store and corn oil was priced at $.63/gallon - diesel at the pump was $1.29/gallon. The following day you should have seen the look on the face of the man who stopped in her apartment parking lot and observed her pouring corn oil into her fuel tank. She also had a half dozen bottles of other old oils from her kitchen that she was disposing of at the same time. She started the car and drove off leaving the aroma of french fries in the parking lot.

 

[220sec]

Not sure if its available over there - but in Australia there has been some commercial releases of "bio-diesel" which is made from vegetable oils and glycerin - you end up with bio-diesel and soap - apparently?

Very similar to your everyday diesel...
However from my limited research I have heard that biodiesel isnt that much better in terms of its particulate/gas polution emissions.

I have also heard that many of the problems from using straight vegetable oil can be overcome using a heating element in the fuel tank to heat the oil before combustion.

I think that its a good option if it doesnt result in any accelerated engine wear.

 

[GaryC]

The situation for the bio-diesel now in UK, is not much researcher have research on Bio-diesel, but some university did have some reserch in this topic, but the situation now is many people focus their research to the hydrogen power, and fuel cell, which simply because of emission problem, and beside, many researcher believe that, internal combustion engine was an old, and mature reserch topic, so they tend to move away from these research area... :cry:

Bio-diesel is a possible kind of energy source, but compare with fuel cell, the emission was still high....

Cooking oil and vegetable oil could possibly burn in the Compression ignition engine (diesel engine), but the efficiency might not be as high as diesel and petrol. The Calorific value- (which defined the amount of heat liberated when a fuel is burned compeletely) of such oil was lower then diesel and petrol, so possibly your engine have to burn more fuel, to achieve the power and torque by compare with diesel and petrol.

One problem will occur was the unburn oil will come out from the exhaust, as the volatility of cooking oil was lower then petrol and diesel, then we might have the problem of air/fuel mixing, inside the combustion chamber.

If we want to know which particular engine will work best, we have to check the Cetane number, which mean the self ignition power of the oil, then we could know the pressure ratio require for the fuel to burn, and compare which engine have the simular value, then we could find the best one...

 

[dieseldes]

Hi

Yes the mercedes in line diesel pumps are ideal for vegitable oil (SVO) there is a german who has run for 70,000 + KMs and has had the engine checked with no problems!!! http://www.rerorust.de/ has some english translation. for the other bits http://www.freetranslation.com/

As for Biodiesel it is difficult to get 100% bioD in the UK unless you make it yourself, Rix from Hull has various stations all over the country but only has 5% or so bio blended with ordinary diesel.
Even 1% BioD added to diesel can replace the lubricity lost by the removal of sulpher and reduces the emmissions.
For the green people out there running 100% bioD does not increase the amount of CO2 it is a renewable fuel....

If you buy fuel in France all Diesel sold has 5%(approx) bioD in it. The French ain't daft, Truckers and farmers go on strike the farmers get a crop to grow (rapeseed for bioD) and the truckers get a lower tax on the fuel!
For further Information and links http://www.veggiepower.org.uk/

Des

 

[pcman_jh]

I've been running 70% Veg oil for a week, now have problems!

My C250 Diesel (118,000 miles with no coversion or modifications) has been OK for a week, but the last 2 morning it either took a few turns (normally starts first turn of the key) or didn't start at all. To get it started the second time I had to remove the fuel filter, drain the filter then fill it with fresh diesel to get it started.

I've suspended running it on veg oil until someone can reassure me I don't have a more sinister problem. One observation I had was the amount of air bubbles in the fuel pipes connected to the filter. I've had problems in the past with air ingress - could this be coincidence again, or is it due to the Veg oil (100% rapeseed oil from SafeWays)?

How reassured should I be that my inline pump on my engine can take the morning starts without overstressing it due to the increased viscocity of the veg oil?

 

[dieselman]

Bosh in line pumps will take the strain of vegetable oil without problems.

The air is being drawn in due to the extra viscosity causing greater vacuum in the supply lines. Maybe you need new o-rings at the filter head. You must use Viton seals for veggie oil. MB seals are Viton as standard.

Nice to see you have selected rapeseed oil as this is the best veggie oil to run. You should have the same amount output and a low risc of gumming or coking.

You could dilute the vegetable oil with diesel or white spirit to reduce the viscosity. 20% diesel or 3% white spirit will have the desired effect.

 

[220sec]

This all sounds very encouraging!!

I was wondering if anyone had ideas about how this might affect performance throught the rev range?

Also would there be any adverse effects when used with turbos or other modifications?? which 1st stage modification would be the best suited to getting more out of your veggie oil??

 

[curioius]

getting clogged from biodiesel

I drive a 1987 SDL (6 cylindar) and recently mixed biodiesel and diesel 50/50. After 100 miles the car lost all power and umpf, with no pickup. I drained the tank and all fuel lines. When I used 100% diesel all former immense power was there. Has anyone else had this problem?

 

[Keith]

veggie experiences

a 'very good friend of mine' uses veggie in his 300D sometimes up to 75% with no problems (other than smell). In winter he would keep it below 50% due to increased viscosity but in summer there is no limit. He noticed no decrease in performance. There has been no adverse effect on anything.

I have seen a few TV progs one of which featured a 250D. I am told that common rail diesels its not advisable for but I dont know if this is true.

Tesco are about to launch a 5% veggie diesel which is more expensive than normal diesel - where's the logic in that?

If you work it out every litre of pure veggie you put in the tank saves you £1 compared to pump diesel but I would be wary of doing it in public since you should be paying a fuel tax on it!

Dont forget that the diesel engine was first developed to run on peaunut oil so we should not be surprised that it still runs ok on veggie oil.

Keith

 

[mjtray]

If I remember correctly, I think I read somewhere that Common Rail injection units do not like veg oil as veg oil does not contain the same amount of lubricant as pure diesel and a common rail injection system needs the lubricant in diesel to keep it working correctly.

An older style in-direct diesel engine does not have as many finely tuned moving parts and operates happily with veg oil....apparently

Cheers