Views upon ECU remapping and brabus chip

[roadhog]

Now that you've all finished arguing about torque converters slipping and locking up, which one of you is going to explain how this relates to the OP's findings that his car now runs at lower revs for a given speed than it did before the re-map?

 

[television]

Now that you've all finished arguing about torque converters slipping and locking up, which one of you is going to explain how this relates to the OP's findings that his car now runs at lower revs for a given speed than it did before the re-map?

I am going out for the night. and I will not get locked up

 

[whitenemesis]

Thats OK by me,,but there are no electrics involved here,,just torque controlled, unless otherwise selected.

With a slightest pressure on the throttle, thus not increasing the torque, the car does not speed up in proportion to the RPM change. And as before a diesel car is doing much lower RPM than a petrol, and much harder to see on the Rev counter, to increase the speed on my car I have to increase the pedal pressure more than the slight pressure to change the RPM

Not quite correct Malcolm. See pages 41, 47 and 78 (from your doc) all of which show how the box and torque lock-up clutch are controlled by the electronic module. Page 78 states the computer calculates the optimal slip based on the current conditions.

 

[roadhog]

Now that you've all finished arguing about torque converters slipping and locking up ....

Hint. :lol:

 

[psmart]

...which one of you is going to explain how this relates to the OP's findings that his car now runs at lower revs for a given speed than it did before the re-map?

....just have a long read of the OP's contributions, perhaps its me, but I get the feeling we are dealing with GCL.... in which case we now have to discern fact from advertising! .... Im a remap believer, but lowering the revs...... I never saw it on the ML270.... and the ML500 (ok, not remapped), but the only thing to drop revs is to knock it down a cog through the paddles as its pretty damned static rev wise to speed (uncannily like the C, which is manual). The 7G hardly seems to slip as a general rule...... too many things dont add up here.....

 

[whitenemesis]

From the doc posted by Malcolm, these are the data used by the control module to determine operation of the auto box. Does this prompt any answers?

Information received
over CAN C:
- Engine rpm
- Engine coolant temperature
- Throttle pedal position
- Engine load
- ESP signals
- Cruise control signals (or Distronic)
- ESM (shifter position)

Information received
directly:
- Speed sensors
- Selector range sensor
- Transmission fluid temperature

 

[roadhog]

....just have a long read of the OP's contributions, perhaps its me, but I get the feeling we are dealing with GCL.... in which case we now have to discern fact from advertising! .... Im a remap believer, but lowering the revs...... I never saw it on the ML270.... and the ML500 (ok, not remapped), but the only thing to drop revs is to knock it down a cog through the paddles as its pretty damned static rev wise to speed (uncannily like the C, which is manual). The 7G hardly seems to slip as a general rule...... too many things dont add up here.....

My only problem with re-maps has always been the astounding claims made by those offering them (see other thread). I know nothing of GCL other that they're banned from here but that in itself means very little. Neither do I know David but he's come across on here as a levelheaded chap who does his homework and knows what to look for. He's picked them after some research so I'm inclined to believe that they're at least no worse than others. I also believe him when he states that he's seeing lower revs but I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that's achieved or if it's even possible. Unless he's a plant? :lol:

 

[hawk20]

My only problem with re-maps has always been the astounding claims made by those offering them (see other thread). I know nothing of GCL other that they're banned from here but that in itself means very little. Neither do I know David but he's come across on here as a levelheaded chap who does his homework and knows what to look for. He's picked them after some research so I'm inclined to believe that they're at least no worse than others. I also believe him when he states that he's seeing lower revs but I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that's achieved or if it's even possible. Unless he's a plant? :lol:

Could be the well known 'placebo' effect which most of us are subject to.

Hard to see how revs can drop for a given speed unless an extra gear has been fitted or the rolling radius of the wheel plus tyre has been increased.

And how would they 'tweek' the gearbox?

 

[Retired]

The only gearbox 'tweak' I can think of would be to drive aggresively for a while so it adopts a more sporty shift pattern.

This might make the car feel quicker, but certainly wouldn't affect gearing.

 

[television]

I think it is all rather funny now, we have hawk who can feel it lock up in top,, get it seen to hawk it should not not.


There is whitenemisis who is now adamant that it all to do with electrics, even in top gear, and that is what this is about, he seems to have forgotten that we were talking about lock up in top gear, as it never completely locks up, and we know that, I cant see the point of the post.

And there is no way the the RPM can drop, why does everyone keep on about this bit, that just is not possible, and we all know that dont we

 

[whitenemesis]

I think it is all rather funny now, we have hawk who can feel it lock up in top,, get it seen to hawk it should not not.


There is whitenemisis who is now adamant that it all to do with electrics, even in top gear, and that is what this is about, he seems to have forgotten that we were talking about lock up in top gear, as it never completely locks up, and we know that, I cant see the point of the post.

And there is no way the the RPM can drop, why does everyone keep on about this bit, that just is not possible, and we all know that dont we

Not adamant Malcolm just referencing your own document. Electronics do control the lock-up clutch.

Your insistence that it never locks up is correct for the 7G 'box but by inference from the document you posted, this is NOT representative of ALL autoboxes.

How many times have we come to this? Not all cars have the same systems, generalisation is dangerous .

 

[television]

Not adamant Malcolm just referencing your own document. Electronics do control the lock-up clutch.

Your insistence that it never locks up is correct for the 7G 'box but by inference from the document you posted, this is NOT representative of ALL autoboxes.

How many times have we come to this? Not all cars have the same systems, generalisation is dangerous .

The 722 box does not lock up completely either, I posted factual evidence of this years ago from the same source, this is no longer available.

It is on the club somewhere a couple of years back.

Now this evening I tried my own car at 100 mph and I still had a flexi drive, just the same as when driving at 70

 

[whitenemesis]

The 722 box does not lock up completely either, I posted factual evidence of this years ago from the same source, this is no longer available.

It is on the club somewhere a couple of years back.

Now this evening I tried my own car at 100 mph and I still had a flexi drive, just the same as when driving at 70

Naughty, naughty Malcolm!!

As we discussed before, the slightest touch of the accelerator will free the lock-up clutch. The electronics will sense the change before you can observe the effect.


If I "blip" the throttle on my car it will surge forward. The mpg returned is the same as the manual car. If there is any slip (I'm sure there is, imperceptibly )it makes no real difference.

 

[television]

Naughty, naughty Malcolm!!

As we discussed before, the slightest touch of the accelerator will free the lock-up clutch. The electronics will sense the change before you can observe the effect.



If I "blip" the throttle on my car it will surge forward. The mpg returned is the same as the manual car. If there is any slip (I'm sure there is, imperceptibly )it makes no real difference.

As before not a blip,,just the slightest touch. I know that my 722.6 box never locks up completely

If you think that electronics can make something happen that does not or should not, please say,,and in top and cruising.

I think that you will find that the drive could be less smooth if it was locked up

 

[Xtractorfan]

Well the Mb guy told Hawk so it must be true.. then the guys who made the box decided to publish how it actually worked ..and for some reason once again the word of Hawk becomes infallible..
Guys ..chipping works, it produces more power from an engine, and it can also make an engine more fuel efficient. so where is the problem.. just because a guy posts that his rev counter has fallen by 200 revs at a given speed. how can any of us possibly know if this is caused by the increase in power, or by some other weird phenomenon..And as the clutch is never permanently locked up..ie variable then all things are possible..

 

[hawk20]

And please don't start misquoting me again Malcolm. I have never claimed I can feel it lock up. Never.

And Xtractor fan, for goodness sake I have never claimed infallibility of any kind. I'm merely chatting away in print on a forum like everyone else. And nothing the MB guy told me has anything at all to do with chipping or remapping and at no point have I ever claimed that it did.

All this is about semantics IMO. The whole point is that in layman's terms modern auto boxes 'lock-up' to save fuel. You can argue forever that they don't lock up completely -like a bolted door- because they are using friction to reduce slip to a minimum and remain ready to release as parameters change. But to all intents and purposes at a constant cruising speed on a reasonably level ground they reduce slippage to virtually zero.

 

[television]

And please don't start misquoting me again Malcolm. I have never claimed I can feel it lock up. Never.

All this is about semantics IMO. The whole point is that in layman's terms they lock-up to save fuel. You can argue forever that they don't lock up completely -like a bolted door- because they are using friction to reduce slip to a minimum and remain ready to release as parameters change.

Cant you accept that they do not completely lock up,,you are not only arguing with me,you are disbelieving what MB use for their training programs..

It says in huge black and white letters That it never locks up completely

 

[television]

I imagine very difficult if it progressively releases if you accelerate.

When I'm cruising, for example using cruise at a steady indicated speed around the 70 mark, on my car the revs stay constant mile after mile. Presumably that is what we would expect when locked up.

It is not locked up though is it

 

[hawk20]

It is not locked up though is it

On page 16 of your reference it says: -



Torque Converter

• Lock-up torque converter is never fully locked.



On page 15 it says: -

• Lock-up clutch can be activated in all 7 forward gears

As far as I'm concerned if it is 99% locked that's fine by me. Point is the slip is reduced to virtually zero in the right conditions.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

There is a mechanism whereby the revs can drop under certain operating conditions.

If the remap has made the application of the lockup clutch more agressive, then, under these conditions the clutch will be applied harder,; the drive will be more direct, and there will be less slip across the torque convertor, and so, the engine will turn slower.

The best way to verify what's going on is to compare engine speed with gearbox input shaft speed using live data, possibly from a Star machine.