Views upon ECU remapping and brabus chip

hawk20

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I have also noticed the revs are much lower at 30 MPH and at 80 MPH this works out at around 200-300 Revs different.

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Oh dear. You really can fool some of the people all of the time.

At 80mph you are in top gear. The revs cannot possibly be lower just because of a remap. Only by changing the actual gear ratios or the rolling radius of the tyres could that be achieved.
 

wemorgan

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Based on normal driving +4 MPG

Each week I do the same 300 mile journey. The only difference is my speed and weather. MPG varies ~10%. I'd need more than a short journey to measure a 4mpg improvement accurately.

I'm tempted to remap my diesel car, but together with that I'll be changing the 5th gear ratio. The two together should improve my efficiency I'd hope. But if not, at least I'd still have a car with higher torque over a wider range
 

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Oh dear. You really can fool some of the people all of the time.

At 80mph you are in top gear. The revs cannot possibly be lower just because of a remap. Only by changing the actual gear ratios or the rolling radius of the tyres could that be achieved.

Have you noticed that on a 211 when you take the foot off the accelerator the rev needs moves down slightly, perhaps the Remap is interfering with the pedal/throttle mapping

Perhaps the OP should fit a sprint booster, that really does make the car go faster ;)
 

*Thumper

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Oh Jesus, Hawk .. when will you give it up ..... you sound like a kid whose had his sweets snatched ...........
 

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Bored now !!!!!

Some of you need to get laid !!!

laid to rest as does this thread.. the other would be scrutinised way way too much, ie how much pleasure was gained as opposed to the struggle getting hold of the sheep..:shock::p
 
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David-Butter

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Oh dear. You really can fool some of the people all of the time.

At 80mph you are in top gear. The revs cannot possibly be lower just because of a remap. Only by changing the actual gear ratios or the rolling radius of the tyres could that be achieved.



What is your game, This is just stupit this is a forum not public humiliation. One of the common expectations for a forum is help and advise .There is 90% of that here however there are a small minority that seem to be above the rest.

I can't belive how rude you are. I could come to your house and bring my cars ,money ect and shout about how much more money i have than you BUT i just would not do this because i respect other's.

If you have nothing good to say dont ****** say it.
 

television

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One should remember that the torque converter is not locked up at 70mph. One can prove this by slightly pressing the throttle at 70 mph where a change in the rpm can be seen,but no change in the car speed, perhaps the extra BHP affects this,,I do not know
 

hawk20

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What is your game, This is just stupit this is a forum not public humiliation. One of the common expectations for a forum is help and advise .There is 90% of that here however there are a small minority that seem to be above the rest.

I can't belive how rude you are. I could come to your house and bring my cars ,money ect and shout about how much more money i have than you BUT i just would not do this because i respect other's.

If you have nothing good to say dont ****** say it.



This is what I said: -
“Oh dear. You really can fool some of the people all of the time.

At 80mph you are in top gear. The revs cannot possibly be lower just because of a remap. Only by changing the actual gear ratios or the rolling radius of the tyres could that be achieved.”

The quote from Abe Lincoln is not intended to be rude in any way. It is intended to summarise my view that some of the remap/chip companies push the limits on truth with their claims. I think they rely on the well known ‘placebo’ effect. I am entitled to express my opinion just as you can express yours.

I then give a specific purely factual example. You say they ‘tweeked’ the gearbox. And say that as a result you now need 2-300 less revs at 80mph. I merely queried that, since I cannot see how they can do that without either increasing the gear ratio or the rolling radius of the wheels. Perhaps someone more technical than I would comment on what is technically possible.
 

hawk20

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One should remember that the torque converter is not locked up at 70mph. One can prove this by slightly pressing the throttle at 70 mph where a change in the rpm can be seen,but no change in the car speed, perhaps the extra BHP affects this,,I do not know

I'm no expert on auto boxes but I thought we all had electronic lock up -or somesuch- nowadays?

And anyway wouldn't more power lead to more slip when accelerating? What is being claimed is a reduction in revs at high constant cruising speeds.
 

television

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I'm no expert on auto boxes but I thought we all had electronic lock up -or somesuch- nowadays?

And anyway wouldn't more power lead to more slip when accelerating? What is being claimed is a reduction in revs at high constant cruising speeds.

We do have lock up that take place during the changing of the gears, but at any speed where you can blip the throttle and see a change in RPM without the car speed changing shows that it is not locked up,it may come in at nearer the 100 mark,I just have not tried it
 

hawk20

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We do have lock up that take place during the changing of the gears, but at any speed where you can blip the throttle and see a change in RPM without the car speed changing shows that it is not locked up,it may come in at nearer the 100 mark,I just have not tried it

You could be right. But I thought we had lock up at normal cruising speeds and that it unlocked if you moved the accelerator. That way it would aid fuel economy by reducing slippage.
 

television

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You could be right. But I thought we had lock up at normal cruising speeds and that it unlocked if you moved the accelerator. That way it would aid fuel economy by reducing slippage.

There is fully locked up and partial lock up, while ever you can blip the engine and see a RPM change it is not fully locked up
 

whitenemesis

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Sorry for my delay, I can get out of it now.As you all know she has now been remapped on friday i turned up a GCL Tuning and handed over the keys. 3 hours later the magic had been worked, I went out for a test run with Tony and we tweeked the gear box for prime shifting well well well its now an animal a truly different vehicle. Power is smooth but so hard as and when you want it. Based on normal driving +4 MPG. I have also noticed the revs are much lower at 30 MPH and at 80 MPH this works out at around 200-300 Revs different.

Sorry for the short review i will put some time in when we cover some more miles.

But would that not have required a change of the gear ratios, or the final drive?

Do tell how this amazing miracle was achieved - while driving??

P.S. Don't forget the apparent gain in fuel economy comes about because remapping affects the computer calcs of mpg. No longer accurate. (See many other threads).

PPS. Given all the problems Mercedes have had with getting the 7 speed box to work properly, I really wouldn't let anyone else 'tweek' it.

And that's another bit that MB won't be guaranteeing.

What is your game, This is just stupit this is a forum not public humiliation. One of the common expectations for a forum is help and advise .There is 90% of that here however there are a small minority that seem to be above the rest.

I can't belive how rude you are. I could come to your house and bring my cars ,money ect and shout about how much more money i have than you BUT i just would not do this because i respect other's.

If you have nothing good to say dont ****** say it.


David, putting aside how you interpret Hawk's posts, he does raise an interesting question. How was the transmission tweeked? Could you perhaps expand on the statement, as it is something that has ben riased in other threads wrt remapping?

The comment about an improvement in mpg I would consider this to be well within natural variance on any repeated trip. I think you would need to assess the mpg over a much longer period of time/journeys.

Please don't read this as "having a go" or trying to belittle your efforts, it is s genuine desire to understand the processes a little better. :)
 

Retired

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AFAIK the MB 7 seven speed 'box features 'lock up' on all seven speeds.

Interesting to know when 'lock' or 'unlock' is activated. Constant throttle? Constant speed?.....
 

Alex M Grieve

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Please don't read this as "having a go" or trying to belittle your efforts, it is s genuine desire to understand the processes a little better. :)

Hear hear. As for Peter, the good guys are on your side, but we would like to understand what has happened here.

I have modified cars in the past to enhance the torque and the difference can be breathtaking. Better "breathing" can also improve fuel economy, so whatever data you collect over the forthcoming months will be of real interest.
 
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David-Butter

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Afternoon,

Please forgive me but that last post was a little out of character for me, However this did wind me up so to speak.

Regarless i apologise to whom i may have upset.
 

st4

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We do have lock up that take place during the changing of the gears, but at any speed where you can blip the throttle and see a change in RPM without the car speed changing shows that it is not locked up,it may come in at nearer the 100 mark,I just have not tried it

I do this on mine, it does change the RPM.

Why wouldnt the TC lock up at lower speeds, would give more engine braking and a "direct drive" so more efficiency?
 

turbopete

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I do this on mine, it does change the RPM.

Why wouldnt the TC lock up at lower speeds, would give more engine braking and a "direct drive" so more efficiency?

good point, and probably the reason why autos, as a rule across ALL cars (not just MB's) tend to quote worse mpg figures than manuals. lock up could also bring performance increases as the power will be transferred to the road, not slipping away in the unlocked torque converter.

not a problem i have anymore.
 

television

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I do this on mine, it does change the RPM.

Why wouldnt the TC lock up at lower speeds, would give more engine braking and a "direct drive" so more efficiency?


Yes the 7g as said does lock up offering slightly better fuel consumption. Having complete lock up is quite new in the car world and not something easily changed without a complete new box, engine braking is something else

I have not studied the workings but the not lock up guarantees a smooth change, and in this respect the 722.6 is very good, we had so many post about hard changes in the early daýs of the 7G
 

hawk20

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Managed to get this from a senior MB technical guy: -

"The component you are referring to is called the torque converter lock-up clutch and is housed within the torque converter. This is controlled by an electro-hydraulic valve (torque converter lock-up solenoid valve) in the valve body which is in the sump of the gearbox. This valve is controlled by the gearbox control unit. The point at which the gearbox control unit actuates the lock-up function depends on a number of things, engine load, engine rpm, road speed, throttle position. Because all of these influence the lock-up clutch behaviour I can't give you specifics as to the speed or engine rpm at which the clutch changes from an Open State, to Slipping, to Fully engaged. It's a constantly varying process.

Under acceleration the lock-up function is reduced. This will increase the amount of slip between the impeller and turbine in the torque converter, which in turn will produce a torque multiplication effect. This all adds up to smooth, progressive acceleration. As a guide, when cruising with light throttle the lock-up clutch will be fully engaged, so no slip at all. When stationary and at idle the clutch is fully open. Everything in between will depend on the variables listed above.

For your information, on your car the lock-up clutch function is active in all forward gears, whereas on the 203 C Class, for example, the lock-up function is active only in 3rd, 4th and 5th."


If I've got this right it means what I posted earlier is roughly right and that we have lock-up at normal cruising speeds to improve fuel economy but it progressively releases if we accelerate to gather speed.
 
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