VITO / V Class.... are Euro 6 OM651 engines as bad as Euro 5 OM651 engines?

[gilesbracher]

Hi all,

I expect I am opening a can of worms here, with this but I'd like to get some feedback from people with real world experience.

My 200,000 mile 2006 E Class Estate, which I love, just isn't big enough. So I am looking into getting a Vito / Viano / V class. I'm not in the money for a new van (£12 -18K budget). I also don't like changing vehicles, like them to live a long and full life. Having followed numerous threads and articles it seems the OM651 engine is really not that reliable as it gets older my Indi' says just stay away.

My first thought would be to get a 2009 (W639) van with a OM646 engine. But it does seem counterintuitive to be buying and older van so it lasted longer. So I was wondering if the newer W447 Vito's (2014 on) with Euro 6 engines had these issues fixed or are they even worse because of the extar emission reductions etc.

I note the Bluetech versions on the OM642 V6 (that i have in my E Class) don't look that rosie either. :-(

Grateful for some feedback on what the sweet spot is for reliability in Vitos.

Thank you

 

[Blobcat]

Buy a Caravelle…

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

You are caught between a rock and a hard place - I won’t be buying a EU6 diesel when I trade my 350cdi estate they are too complicated to own on your basis of long term ownership they will bite you and when they do not only Will it cost a lot of money to repair but to add insult to injury a failed ADBLUE system won’t even let you start the car - says it all really.
For all it’s faults the OM651 might be the best alternative in EU5 guise well serviced examples are at least a known quantity and with no petrol alternative perhaps the only way to go

 

[gilesbracher]

You are caught between a rock and a hard place - I won’t be buying a EU6 diesel when I trade my 350cdi estate they are too complicated to own on your basis of long term ownership they will bite you and when they do not only Will it cost a lot of money to repair but to add insult to injury a failed ADBLUE system won’t even let you start the car - says it all really.
For all it’s faults the OM651 might be the best alternative in EU5 guise well serviced examples are at least a known quantity and with no petrol alternative perhaps the only way to go

Thanks Malcolm, Yes I feel the squeeze!!! In a way I feel safer going with the even older but perhaps easier to fixable OM646. I'm sure it won't be allowed in cities but that's not where I'm headed.

it will be interesting to see who else thinks your way!

 

[Jim2]

It's an interesting question, ( and more so as it's the OM651 cdi in my 2014 Eclass) but it all depends on who you talk to..Forums like this tend to be populated with people who are having problems with their cars. Servicing plays a very important part in the longevity and trouble-free performance of any car, regardless of make. Maybe someone can come up with some statistics? But in my 3.5 year's of MB ownership, I have yet to hear anything bad about the OM651 engine from anyone who has one.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Totally agree Jim, engines have over the last 20 years changed dramatically, in order to produce the power figures given today they are complex, stressed smaller units and in my opinion regular oil changes <7500 miles are required instead of the 15-18k miles intervals recommended by manufacturers. BMW is a prime example of this introducing VANOS and Valvetronic mechanisms into cylinder heads doesn’t sit well with their recommended service intervals that’s without even mentioning timing chain wear

 

[Jim2]

Totally agree Jim, engines have over the last 20 years changed dramatically, in order to produce the power figures given today they are complex, stressed smaller units and in my opinion regular oil changes <7500 miles are required instead of the 15-18k miles intervals recommended by manufacturers. BMW is a prime example of this introducing VANOS and Valvetronic mechanisms into cylinder heads doesn’t sit well with their recommended service intervals that’s without even mentioning timing chain wear

Yes Malcolm, and I use the 365 day interval, but even aside from covid reduced mileage, I rarely pass the 5000 klm. But you can get some great oil bargains..I currently have a 20 ltr cube of MB 229.51 oil, cost £63 so that's 3 changes.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

I wish Jim, the OM642 has a capacity of 8 litres so a big sump. I paid MB £57 for 10 litres inc oil filter. Where do you source it in 20 litres?

 

[Jim2]

I wish Jim, the OM642 has a capacity of 8 litres so a big sump. I paid MB £57 for 10 litres inc oil filter. Where do you source it in 20 litres?

I got it from Mercedesbenzofnewcastle
Malcolm.Was on offer at the time, last November, I think. .

 

[Craiglxviii]

I wish Jim, the OM642 has a capacity of 8 litres so a big sump. I paid MB £57 for 10 litres inc oil filter. Where do you source it in 20 litres?

There was a link to an eBay seller, with oil to the latest MB spec at something like £35 for a 20 litre tub.

edit. It’s now £55! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Long-Lif...=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

 

[Droverunner]

You are in a similar position to mine back in May. I was running a totally satisfactory 2008 Mondeo Ghia estate Tdi but needed greater loadspace and wanted a day van style with room to lounge about at a table with a takeaway after a day at the coast... but not to sleep in. The Mondeo was a tidy example with full leather and woody trim, zero faults and drove as new. I wanted those factors to carry over to this new vehicle. Looking round I came to the conclusion that the Mercedes in Viano form was the only brand/model which was trimmed in this way. I did briefly consider a VW but they can have their problems, are more basic in spec and sparsely trimmed... and priced above their real worth usually. So Viano it was. SWB was big enough for us and fitted within a Mondeo sized footprint lengthwise so I was super keen to keep to that size.

Note we have four years ownership of a 2007 CLK 220 CDI under our belts... Mrs D's car which she loves and has been fine.

Our budget was the same as yours and I did consider as low as £8k for some older or high mileage examples.

In the end though I thought we'll spend most of the budget for as new and low mileage as possible.... with a rock solid mileage/service history being important which was where many examples fell down.

Received great advice here on this thread below initially for which I'm grateful but in the end you do have to go your own way and it's important to consider there is far more anecdotal stuff about this or that vehicle/engine's faults than actual catastrophic failures.... and forums do focus on faults as said by someone above.

Viano as an everyday car and possible problems.

I see I've not been on here for over a year... apart from the fact we and our cars have done little during the pandemic the wife's CLK 220CDi has gone into a period of reliability after all the overhaul work done post purchase up to 2019. Anyway I want what I'm calling a day van to give us...

forums.mercedesclub.org.uk

And here is what I bought... a 2012 SWB Viano with V6 OM642 engine and proven only 56,000mls...

https://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threads/viano-3-0cdi-2012-compact-bought-unseen-first-assessment-and-servicing.189275/

Two months on still delighted. The engine is an absolute peach to have in a "van" body and is a great part of the appeal.

I am very much a believer in shorter duration oil/filter changes and brisk driving as cheap insurance. In its previous life the service intervals have averaged around 6,250mls.

 

[gilesbracher]

Thank you all for your comments, I have been really busy the last month, so the van hunt was shelved. Now back at it.

We are all on the same page regarding servicing etc. More and preventative servicing is the way forward. With that in mind getting the lowest possible millage is going to be best option. So I am now swinging to your way of thinking Malcom! A low miler OM651 or OM642 pre Euro 6 with a good service history may be the way forward.

You are caught between a rock and a hard place - I won’t be buying a EU6 diesel when I trade my 350cdi estate they are too complicated to own on your basis of long term ownership they will bite you and when they do not only Will it cost a lot of money to repair but to add insult to injury a failed ADBLUE system won’t even let you start the car - says it all really.
For all it’s faults the OM651 might be the best alternative in EU5 guise well serviced examples are at least a known quantity and with no petrol alternative perhaps the only way to go

I appreciate that the problems are highlighted in Forums like this. But when I see how many millions of OM651's are on the road. They can't all go bad at 150k miles!! Can they?

I have been running a VW Transporter 2.5 TDI from new for the last 16 years (156,000m). In that time, I've had a drive shaft and a few springs go. I had to replace the DPF last year which I am free to admit heart!! But if I go to VW forums no one likes that engine! ha ha.

I have been struggling to find out when the Euro 5 engines stopped production? Does anyone know or have a link? was it the same year for both the OM651 & OM642?

I need the Extra long wheel base for windsurfing and mountain bike toy storage. So I am kind off assuming I need at least the 116 CDI ? or seen as it is the same block may be the 113 CDI would also be fine? any thoughts or comments?

Apart from that Cruse control is pretty essential and an Auto box would be nice. I don't even really want seats in the back, ha ha , so even looking at vans, but it is much harder to find a nice one.

I'd be really grateful if some one could point me to what years the Euro 5 engines ran.

Thank you.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Not sure about vans EU5 cars were compliant between 2009-2013. An easy way to check is to put the reg into the ULEZ checker website to find if it’s EU6 compliant or in the case of early cars look at the exhaust exits they won’t be sooty

 

[gilesbracher]

Not sure about vans EU5 cars were compliant between 2009-2013. An easy way to check is to put the reg into the ULEZ checker website to find if it’s EU6 compliant or in the case of early cars look at the exhaust exits they won’t be sooty

Thank you that gives me a good starting point? Did the engine names change for Euro6? like 117 CDI?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

EU6 engines usually have the d suffix as in 220d as opposed to the EU3/4/5 engines cdi suffix as in 220cdi

 

[M80]

A personal view, or 2, with significant experience.

You seem set on a Vito.
The Viano is generally better specced and even feels to be a nicer map. But many have been taxis with mileage corrupted along the way.

Either way I disagree with your older model concern. The 646 engine is far more robust and far less complicated than the 651. So that would be 2009 latest.
If you want to pretend to save the planet then DPF it is, but as it may have been an option on the later 646 you might have choice. For me it's w/o.

Tax classification is a biggy. N1 is much cheaper than M1 (car).. An online search from the reg and it will come up as 0 grams co2 on the Govt website.
For superior spec on the Vito it is still possible to be N1 and be a Traveliner with rear seat rails. Sunroofs, heated seat, auto wipers (also with auto lights) would still be possible but a rare beast. Nicer clocks, steering audio+ controls would come with the Comand, but it would be out of date and better replaced by Chinese. Even some Dualiners can have rear lining, but may have a bulkhead and bare metal in the rear.
The 642 all had DPF's and guzzled the juice to the tune of 20% extra. The 115 has the lower ratio diff so will cruise at lower revs, if you don't wish to race there is plenty enough torque, and you could remap anyway.

The ExLWB will be rejected by many workshops as too long for their ramps.
Commercial repairers become the alternative.

When you understand that lot you may appreciate more the numerous choices that come in a 639 guise.
Btw I've only touched on some of them.

 

[Nicklas_Hidegard]

I had a bulletproof VIANO 2010 (60reg), face-lift version which discontinued in 2015. Euro 5 and never any problems with DPF (once I had a message on the dash to drive it at higher revs on the motorway). To me that was a very reliable engine and at the time there were loads on auto trader with 200k+ miles on the clock. Was an ex "taxi" (Airport run rather than town taxi) and had impeccible service record. Had 150k when I bought it and 240k when I sold it, had no trouble with it. Only slight drawback was 5 speed auto which although reliable, sat at around 2.5k revs at 70mph. I do think the choice would be the 6pot (642?) 3 litre which there were loads on auto trader with 300k miles. Very nice vehicles!

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[gilesbracher]

A personal view, or 2, with significant experience.

You seem set on a Vito.
The Viano is generally better specced and even feels to be a nicer map. But many have been taxis with mileage corrupted along the way.

Either way I disagree with your older model concern. The 646 engine is far more robust and far less complicated than the 651. So that would be 2009 latest.
If you want to pretend to save the planet then DPF it is, but as it may have been an option on the later 646 you might have choice. For me it's w/o.

Tax classification is a biggy. N1 is much cheaper than M1 (car).. An online search from the reg and it will come up as 0 grams co2 on the Govt website.
For superior spec on the Vito it is still possible to be N1 and be a Traveliner with rear seat rails. Sunroofs, heated seat, auto wipers (also with auto lights) would still be possible but a rare beast. Nicer clocks, steering audio+ controls would come with the Comand, but it would be out of date and better replaced by Chinese. Even some Dualiners can have rear lining, but may have a bulkhead and bare metal in the rear.
The 642 all had DPF's and guzzled the juice to the tune of 20% extra. The 115 has the lower ratio diff so will cruise at lower revs, if you don't wish to race there is plenty enough torque, and you could remap anyway.

The ExLWB will be rejected by many workshops as too long for their ramps.
Commercial repairers become the alternative.

When you understand that lot you may appreciate more the numerous choices that come in a 639 guise.
Btw I've only touched on some of them.

Thank you Martin, Yes all great points. My desire (a Viano specked cab, panel van) fall between what is actually made! ha ha. so what ever i get will have its compromises.