VW in the dock...

[PovertySpec]

When someone says 'My electric car is clean and doesn't hurt the environment'.

I always ask them where they get the electric from to charge it up!

I have a rello in 'Stralia who came over to visit last year. Lovely bloke, bit of an old hippy.

Picked him up at the airport in the E Class and the first thing he said when he got in the passenger seat is 'nice car but this is too flash for me, I've got a Prius'

For a second I thought about engaging him in a discussion about manufacturing in one country, mining in another, shipping both parts to other countries then back again, then on to the final point of sale. And coal fired power stations.

And the fact that my E Class will probably have a serviceable life of 20+ years and, unless someone kills it and an RTC, achieve well in excess of 500,000 miles. Maybe more.

A split second later I turned the music up and said, ah well, just sit back and enjoy the ride. How was your 12,000 mile flight

Flights: Western Aus to Sydney to CDG France for a wedding.

CDG to London Heathrow to see family, hosted by us in Hampshire.

Collected from and dropped off at HR by YT FOC.

London to Schiphol to see family, Schiphol to CDG back to Sydney, then back to the west coast by air.

Got a Prius though

 

[DSB SL AMG]

To be honest with you this could break them if the situation is not managed closely with an agreed master plan defined and executed well....

Problem is VW exec board might not understand how serious the situation is if arrogance creeps in, they will have to sustain business cuts to enable funding of the recall + financial burden of this disaster, with I think the sale of some of the VW group brands and global factory location closures...

is the VAG group robust enough financially to withstand such financial issues, i wonder?

 

[C350Carl]

They've lost 41% of their Market Value and they face potential fines of up to $18bn.

However they own about 10-12 different brands and I think they will survive just fine. As long as, like DSB said, they don't let arrogance creep in.

The way I see them solving it is to issue firstly a software flash. This will no doubt annoy those who's had a remap as it will need to be remapped again. This won't be instant as the tuners will need to evaluate the map with the new version of the software.

Then I see them developing an engineering solution. However this will be time consuming and costly to do.

I can see a lot of used VAG diesel cars flooding the market soon. Which will lower resale value even further as they struggle to sell. At least in the immediate future.

The problem they will have is how they fund all of this. If they start trying to bump up the price of new cars they will suffer further.

 

[Xtractorfan]

It certainly will affect the remappers or those who have bought a remapped car after it has been sold on if they decide to take it back to VW for 'warranty' work. I can see a case here where VW will want to charge because of the the remap...

 

[C350Carl]

It certainly will affect the remappers or those who have bought a remapped car after it has been sold on if they decide to take it back to VW for 'warranty' work. I can see a case here where VW will want to charge because of the the remap...

Whilst I agree they probably will. I don't think it would stand up to scrutiny.

They have to reflash the ECU anyway to rid the dodgy software. So it makes no odds as to what condition it's in. Unless of course it stops them reflashing it. Then there would be an issue. But I've not heard of an ECU that a dealer couldn't flash unless it was damaged to start with.

If I still had a VAG car that was affected and it was remapped. The first thing I would do is take it to an independent MOT station and pay for it to be checked. If it passed an MOT test then I'd ignore the recall.

The issue will come in that instance if they issue something that specifically tests for it on an MOT.

 

[L John]

... The way I see them solving it is to issue firstly a software flash. This will no doubt annoy those who's had a remap as it will need to be remapped again. This won't be instant as the tuners will need to evaluate the map with the new version of the software.

They can pass emission tests whilst being tested so as far as I can see, a software change would make the car fully legal but it probably will put the car into a halfway state between a limp mode and where it is now in terms of performance.

Not a satisfactory solution to owners.
My guess is if the car is in for ANY work, they would have to update the software first.
The only way to avoid it would be to stay clear of the main dealers and any repair shops that may be authorised to do the updates, anyone on service plans wouldn't have much choice.

It will end up with their small nippy cars being turned into slow pokes.
Buyers wanted nippy clean cars, so compo will hit VW's pockets again.

We all know this is coming and share values will take another hit when the compo starts. Shareholders will cash in and move money to a safer area.
Money lost will be down to VW's illegal activity so they might be able to claim.

Yes it's a massive company but it's like a big pack of Jenga and blocks are being pulled from the base.

 

[C350Carl]

The only way I can see it working in the UK is for the government to remove type approval for all affected vehs. Otherwise half the owners will just rod it off.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Most probably they will maybe revise the current tax bands for affected cars and leave it at that. These things will grow out of the system with age..like the Mercedes rust and SBC systems...
It might actually be cheaper for VAG to pay the higher tax liability for their customers and leave the cars as they are..

 

[C350Carl]

I don't think tax will be affected as that's based on CO2 and not NOx from what I've read.

 

[PovertySpec]

Perfect opportunity for some 'knit my own sandals' civil servant to mount an assault on diesel vehicles and a revision of VED banding

 

[L John]

Most probably they will maybe revise the current tax bands for affected cars and leave it at that. These things will grow out of the system with age..like the Mercedes rust and SBC systems...
It might actually be cheaper for VAG to pay the higher tax liability for their customers and leave the cars as they are..

There are no tax bands for cars that are polluting above the legal limit.
The government cannot increase the accepted limits set and agreed with other countries.
VW will be given a timescale to get the affected cars into the legal parameters and fined again and again if they don't meet the targets.

Where does all the £billions of fine money go to?

 

[prwales]

Perfect opportunity for some 'knit my own sandals' civil servant to mount an assault on diesel vehicles and a revision of VED banding

I think you are correct but the problem is a much wider one, taxing motorists is generally regressive taxation whereas we really need progressive taxation making the wealthiest pay most

 

[Frontstep]

So you have a VW and you get a recall notice which will lower your cars performance and thats about it.
How many will bother ?

 

[V6Matty]

So you have a VW and you get a recall notice which will lower your cars performance and thats about it.
How many will bother ?

I suspect it will be a mandatory recall, all that may happen is we then get lots of remapped cars as people want the performance back

 

[C350Carl]

Problem is it's going to take the tuners a while to check the maps are safe to run with the new software.

Only way I can foresee it being made mandatory is they remove type approval for all affected vehicles. Otherwise people will chin it off.

 

[Alfie]

From what I understand its the euro 5 cars that are affected and the new euro 6 engines are not.

My view is that this will blow over in time as VW is a quality brand and people tend to buy their cars for longevity which they still have. They are big enough to ride this out. They employ too many people for the German government to let them collapse if it ever looked likely.

A good time to buy VW shares!

 

[Frontstep]

You are right the cars are still fundamentally sound, its not a reliability or safety issue.
The shares reflect the possible fines, I wouldn't be jumping in on them just yet the Americans might levy some eye watering fines.

Toyota haven't stopped selling cars by the boat load and they had a number of damaging recalls 625,000 hybrids this year for software issues that can stop the car.
Their shares have doubled over the last five years but and its a big BUT they weren't hit with the massive fines VW face.

Still its reassuring to know the man at the helm Winterkorn has had his reward for failure with an alleged 60 million Euro pay off

No wonder Corbyns getting support.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fo...ld-receive-60-million-euros-payoff-2015-09-24

 

[DSB SL AMG]

Yep, buts its no good to him if he's doing 'bird'

http://www.torquenews.com/106/facing-jail-time-diesel-cheating-vw-ceo-winterkorn-quits

You are right the cars are still fundamentally sound, its not a reliability or safety issue.
The shares reflect the possible fines, I wouldn't be jumping in on them just yet the Americans might levy some eye watering fines.

Toyota haven't stopped selling cars by the boat load and they had a number of damaging recalls 625,000 hybrids this year for software issues that can stop the car.
Their shares have doubled over the last five years but and its a big BUT they weren't hit with the massive fines VW face.

Still its reassuring to know the man at the helm Winterkorn has had his reward for failure with an alleged 60 million Euro pay off

No wonder Corbyns getting support.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fo...ld-receive-60-million-euros-payoff-2015-09-24

 

[JBell]

If what the telegraph says they will fit an AdBlue system so all the owners bills will go up

 

[C350Carl]

If what the telegraph says they will fit an AdBlue system so all the owners bills will go up

That will be extremely expensive for VAG. Especially if they have to give them free top ups for life.