W124 auto box

[telletubby]

I had flaring between 2nd and 3rd on my E300 estate. Took it to my dealer who had the equipment to fix it. He fixed it. It now doesn't flare between 2nd and 3rd. It flares between 1st and 2nd.

 

[Bolide]

I've driven hundreds of Multivalves that flare shifts and a few that give phantom shifts between 3rd and 4th. Flaring is caused by incorrect pressures in the vacuum control system or by a worn box

It sounds to me as if they've changed the vacuum pressures but not completed the job. It's possible to adjust the setup so it changes smoothly but I suspect it's long-winded

According to what I've read, correct operation depends 100% on having a good vacuum to begin with and having no blockages or crud in the vacuum system. I'd buy a vacuum guage, start cleaning pipes and T-pieces and do it yourself

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[shj]

Sorry,what is flaring?:-?

 

[television]

Flaring is where the revs go up in between the changes, normally because the change is taking too long, when the change is quick, the revs do not get a chance to rise

 

[shj]

Thanks Malcom

 

[Bolide]

Flaring is also load-dependent on many of the Multivalves I've driven. Some flared hugely under full throttle but were much better on part throttle

Whether this is expected behaviour I don't know

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[jibcl500]

Sorry,what is flaring?:-?

I thought it was the cut of Malcolms trousers.

jib

 

[television]

I thought it was the cut of Malcolms trousers.

jib

No I am up to date.

Re flaring, I think of it one way, and Nick comes along with another, this is so true what he says under load stress conditions. With the older boxes from the 60's it was easy to know when the toque converter was faulty as the car would be hard to get into top gear, you could be driving along at 50 and the slightest incline the box would change down, or under the worst conditions you had to take your foot off the throttle to get into top gear.

Gearboxes are much better now., mind you 25K miles back then in a ford Anglia it was time for new end shells. When they first opened the M1 the amount of cars on the hard shoulder with blown engines was incredible

 

[ianlty_151]

oh no my W124 200E has the same problem.
The "flaring" occurs when gear 2 - 3 at 3-3.5k RPM and it always end with a 'kick' or rather a choppy one. Obviously not a smooth transmission.

The next "flaring" occurs when gear 3 - 4 at 3.5k RPM above, the revs keep shooting up to 4-5k but it does not shift to 4 unless i lift my foot off the Acc Pedal to reduce the rev to 3-3.5k RPM.

Any cure to smoothen out the transmission?

 

[Bolide]

Step 1 is to change the fluid & filter. Step 2 is to check vacuum pressures and maybe adjust the modulator

You don't want to know about Step 3...


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[ianlty_151]

any pictures to show the place to alter the vacuum pressure and the modulator?
im so confuse without pictures....

whats the bowden cable?

 

[Bolide]

any pictures to show the place to alter the vacuum pressure and the modulator?
im so confuse without pictures....

Without knowing the correct settings and having a good mental picture of how the control system works I wouldn't even start

You can use the Mercedes online WIS system to get the data. You'll also need a vacuum guage and probably some airflow restrictors to set the vacuum correctly. I think you'll need the car in the air to get at the modulator

whats the bowden cable?

Kickdown is controlled by a bowden cable linked to the throttle linkage. The throttle linkage & kickdown cable need to be adjusted correctly for the car to drive properly

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[television]

You don't want to know about Step 3...


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

I like that, never heard it put that way :roll: :roll:

 

[television]

I had flaring between 2nd and 3rd on my E300 estate. Took it to my dealer who had the equipment to fix it. He fixed it. It now doesn't flare between 2nd and 3rd. It flares between 1st and 2nd.

Just seen that you have a TF21, I have had 3 TD,s and 4 TE's and a TF, I used to dive up to Red triangle to buy the rear wing sections, an all time great car

 

[television]

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=717.433&CT=M&cat=19T&SID=14&SGR=125&SGN=07

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...M=717.433&CT=GA&cat=09S&SID=27&SGR=195&SGN=09

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...M=717.433&CT=GA&cat=09S&SID=27&SGR=045&SGN=03

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=717.433&CT=F&cat=44R&SID=30&SGR=015&SGN=01

Thats all folks

 

[iamamanc]

Vacuum Control Valve (E300D & S350D)
1) Ensure engine is at normal operating temperature and
throttle linkage is adjusted properly. Disconnect Black/White vacuum
hose and connect vacuum/pressure tester.
2) Start engine and check vacuum at idle. Vacuum should be
11.6-13.2 in. Hg (395-445 mbar) with Red or Blue colored cap; 10.6-12.
1 in. Hg (360-410 mbar) with Black colored cap. Stop engine and place
throttle linkage at full throttle stop. Vacuum reading should be zero.
3) If vacuum readings are correct, vacuum control valve is
okay. If readings are not correct, check vacuum hose routing. See
Fig. 4. If routing is correct, check vacuum pump. If pump is okay,
adjust vacuum control valve and replace (if necessary).
Vacuum Amplifier (E300D & S350D)
1) Disconnect vacuum hose and damper at vacuum control valve.
Plug vacuum control valve opening. Disconnect pressure hose running
from aneroid compensator (ALDA) to vacuum amplifier, and connect
tester to overpressure side of detached hose.
2) If vehicle has only one hose at aneroid compensator,
connect test hose directly to vacuum amplifier PRE (boost pressure)
connection. Simulate boost pressure of 21.9 in. Hg (740 mbar). Replace
vacuum transducer if leak is present.
3) Using a "T" fitting, connect tester at vacuum end of
vacuum transducer connection TRA (transmission). Start engine and
check vacuum at idle. Vacuum should be .59-1.8 in. Hg (20-60 mbar). If
vacuum readings are correct, vacuum amplifier is okay. If readings are
not correct, check vacuum hose routing. If routing is correct, replace
vacuum amplifier.


TRANSMISSION SLIPS IN ALL GEARS
Incorrect modulating pressure. Modulating pressure control
valve or pressure relief valve is dirty or sticking. Vacuum line to
transmission vacuum capsule clogged or leaking. Working pressure
control valve dirty or sticking. Low working pressure. Defective
primary pump.

Transmission Slips When Starting Off In 1st Or 2nd (Reverse
Is Okay)
Band B-2 shift valve sticking. Band B-2 piston worn or
damaged. Band B-2 adjusted incorrectly or worn or damaged. Adjust
brake band B-2 by installing a longer thrust pin (if necessary). If
transmission operates properly with selector lever in "2", but not in
"3" or "D" position, one-way clutch may be slipping.

Transmission Slips In 2nd Gear Or Shifts From 1st To 3rd Gear
Check control valve B-1 for ease of operation. Replace valve
body (if necessary). Remove and install brake band piston B-1, check
sealing ring and replace (if necessary). Replace brake band B-1 and
thrust body for B-1. Command valve binding.

Transmission Slips During 2-3 Upshift Or Slips Initially,
Then Grabs Hold
Check modulating pressure and adjust (if necessary). Check
for temperature throttle installation (if equipped). Valve body worn
or damaged. Replace valve body (if necessary). Replace inner plates of
clutch K-1 or recondition clutch (if necessary). Check front cover
Teflon ring.

TRANSMISSION SLIPS DURING 3-4 UPSHIFT
Check and adjust modulating pressure. Governor damaged or
working pressure incorrect. Valve body worn or damaged. Replace valve
body (if necessary). Check Teflon rings supporting clutch K-2. Replace
inner plates of clutch K-2 or recondition clutch (if necessary).

 

[eric242340]

Vacuum Control Valve (E300D & S350D)
1) Ensure engine is at normal operating temperature and
throttle linkage is adjusted properly. Disconnect Black/White vacuum
hose and connect vacuum/pressure tester.
2) Start engine and check vacuum at idle. Vacuum should be
11.6-13.2 in. Hg (395-445 mbar) with Red or Blue colored cap; 10.6-12.
1 in. Hg (360-410 mbar) with Black colored cap. Stop engine and place
throttle linkage at full throttle stop. Vacuum reading should be zero.
3) If vacuum readings are correct, vacuum control valve is
okay. If readings are not correct, check vacuum hose routing. See
Fig. 4. If routing is correct, check vacuum pump. If pump is okay,
adjust vacuum control valve and replace (if necessary).
Vacuum Amplifier (E300D & S350D)
1) Disconnect vacuum hose and damper at vacuum control valve.
Plug vacuum control valve opening. Disconnect pressure hose running
from aneroid compensator (ALDA) to vacuum amplifier, and connect
tester to overpressure side of detached hose.
2) If vehicle has only one hose at aneroid compensator,
connect test hose directly to vacuum amplifier PRE (boost pressure)
connection. Simulate boost pressure of 21.9 in. Hg (740 mbar). Replace
vacuum transducer if leak is present.
3) Using a "T" fitting, connect tester at vacuum end of
vacuum transducer connection TRA (transmission). Start engine and
check vacuum at idle. Vacuum should be .59-1.8 in. Hg (20-60 mbar). If
vacuum readings are correct, vacuum amplifier is okay. If readings are
not correct, check vacuum hose routing. If routing is correct, replace
vacuum amplifier.


TRANSMISSION SLIPS IN ALL GEARS
Incorrect modulating pressure. Modulating pressure control
valve or pressure relief valve is dirty or sticking. Vacuum line to
transmission vacuum capsule clogged or leaking. Working pressure
control valve dirty or sticking. Low working pressure. Defective
primary pump.

Transmission Slips When Starting Off In 1st Or 2nd (Reverse
Is Okay)
Band B-2 shift valve sticking. Band B-2 piston worn or
damaged. Band B-2 adjusted incorrectly or worn or damaged. Adjust
brake band B-2 by installing a longer thrust pin (if necessary). If
transmission operates properly with selector lever in "2", but not in
"3" or "D" position, one-way clutch may be slipping.

Transmission Slips In 2nd Gear Or Shifts From 1st To 3rd Gear
Check control valve B-1 for ease of operation. Replace valve
body (if necessary). Remove and install brake band piston B-1, check
sealing ring and replace (if necessary). Replace brake band B-1 and
thrust body for B-1. Command valve binding.

Transmission Slips During 2-3 Upshift Or Slips Initially,
Then Grabs Hold
Check modulating pressure and adjust (if necessary). Check
for temperature throttle installation (if equipped). Valve body worn
or damaged. Replace valve body (if necessary). Replace inner plates of
clutch K-1 or recondition clutch (if necessary). Check front cover
Teflon ring.

TRANSMISSION SLIPS DURING 3-4 UPSHIFT
Check and adjust modulating pressure. Governor damaged or
working pressure incorrect. Valve body worn or damaged. Replace valve
body (if necessary). Check Teflon rings supporting clutch K-2. Replace
inner plates of clutch K-2 or recondition clutch (if necessary).

A small prblem with the valve body can cause all of the above and it is part of the benz syndrome. So, even if your a benz tech, where do you start?

 

[television]

A small prblem with the valve body can cause all of the above and it is part of the benz syndrome. So, even if your a benz tech, where do you start?

This one is 12 years old, hardly a benz syndrome, we only get a few a year like this on here

 

[eric242340]

This one is 12 years old, hardly a benz syndrome, we only get a few a year like this on here

Happy to hear that, I get them every day

 

[iamamanc]

Malcolm - Eric

Did you get the thigamyjigs