W204 - Enough to park using P parking prawl?

[erickh]

On a day to day basis, is it enough to park using the parking prawl without the parking brake applied?

I read in a few forums, mix messages from various owners.
My driveway is apprx. 10% slope down, nothing too steep.

Reason for asking is, I've been using the parking brakes for years till recently I found out that the cables have been stretched and no rooms for any more adjustments.

Car is > 8 years old.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

 

[Tony Dyson]

I don't have a clue what a prawl is? but I always use the P (Park) gear when parking and rarely the parking brake, I've always considered it an overcomplicated and dysfunctional archaic device that needed dragging up into the 21st Century from about 21 Years ago!

 

[erickh]

I don't have a clue what a prawl is? but I always use the P (Park) gear when parking and rarely the parking brake, I've always considered it an overcomplicated and dysfunctional archaic device that needed dragging up into the 21st Century from about 21 Years ago!

thanks for your thoughts. presume putting the car in P gear is enough to hold the car?
My concern was whether it will start rolling away at one point if it fails.

 

[Tony Dyson]

I would think the chances of the overcomplicated MB parking brake failing would be greater than a gearbox failure? if you're that worried, fix your parking brake and use both, if it currently needs repairing you will need to fix it before your next MOT anyway as I believe it's an MOT failure isn't it?

 

[erickh]

I would think the chances of the overcomplicated MB parking brake failing would be greater than a gearbox failure? if you're that worried, fix your parking brake and use both, if it currently needs repairing you will need to fix it before your next MOT anyway as I believe it's an MOT failure isn't it?

i believe so, yes

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 1. Brakes - Guidance - GOV.UK

Brake condition and operation, service brakes, secondary brakes, parking brakes, anti-lock braking system (ABS), electronic braking system (EBS) and brake fluid rules and inspection for car and passenger vehicle MOT tests.

www.gov.uk

 

[Tony Dyson]

I've always considered a hand/parking brake to be inadequate and untrustworthy on it's own as on too many occasions I have returned to a car after applying the brake to a car while hot after a long drive to find that after cooling off the brakes have lost grip on the braked wheel significantly, when I took my test preparing the car to leave it was a three stage process:
1, Apply he hand/parking brake
2, Put the car in gear, low gear if on an incline, reverse gear if on a decline or P in an auto.
3, Steer the front wheels towards the kerb if on a decline and away if on an incline.
A fourth was introduced in around the mid 70's which was the illumination of offside sidelights if parked overnight on a carriageway facing oncoming traffic. I drove vehicles with electronic parking brakes for long enough until my retirement in 2018 when I bought my current car and soon got back into the habit of ignoring my parking brake.

 

[Droverunner]

Repairing a parking pawl is way more expensive (bit of a financial disaster) than basic maintenance (if needed) on a parking brake. The best way to look after the gearbox pawl is to engage the handbrake fully before putting into P... or at least before taking your foot off the footbrake. This way the parking brake takes the strain with the pawl as a backup if you like. Pawls can get worn to the point of slipping or just shear off. One example of this is if you are in P without the handbrake a quite modest bump from another vehicle could shear the pawl... but an applied handbrake would likely save it.

To the OP how do you know the cables are stretched beyond adjustment? Perhaps you are a DIYer and know the correct procedure but many folks/garages just keep taking the cables up without going through the proper process of checking the handbrake shoes and mechanism is spot on then adjusting the shoes first... cable last.

 

[erickh]

Repairing a parking pawl is way more expensive (bit of a financial disaster) than basic maintenance (if needed) on a parking brake. The best way to look after the gearbox pawl is to engage the handbrake fully before putting into P... or at least before taking your foot off the footbrake. This way the parking brake takes the strain with the pawl as a backup if you like. Pawls can get worn to the point of slipping or just shear off. One example of this is if you are in P without the handbrake a quite modest bump from another vehicle could shear the pawl... but an applied handbrake would likely save it.

To the OP how do you know the cables are stretched beyond adjustment? Perhaps you are a DIYer and know the correct procedure but many folks/garages just keep taking the cables up without going through the proper process of checking the handbrake shoes and mechanism is spot on then adjusting the shoes first... cable last.

Neutral gear, apply foot operating parking brake, put gear into P?

I have to say, i normally park up, brake, put it into P and then foot operating parking brake last.

 

[mioba]

Parking with the car in P will put all the weight on the gbox and thus likely to lead to gbox damage.
If the parking brake cable has stretched, then I would be inclined to get it replaced.
Unfortunately all logical having to park on a slope.

 

[Blobcat]

I've taken 2 x E Classes over 100k miles miles (each) and my SLK is now also >100k miles. I park in P with the hand brake off.
Not knackered a gearbox yet and one house had a particularly steep drive to park on.

 

[Droverunner]

>>>Not knackered a gearbox yet

Yes many folks indeed have that experience... others have worn/broken their pawls. If you wish to then taking that extra care to avoid the... perhaps slim chance... is an available option by using the parking brake.

 

[Blobcat]

>>>Not knackered a gearbox yet

Yes many folks indeed have that experience... others have worn/broken their pawls. If you wish to then taking that extra care to avoid the... perhaps slim chance... is an available option by using the parking brake.

4 Mercedes and ~400k miles, I’ll take the risk… I’ve also not worn out, no stretched my handbrakes either…

 

[EmilysDad]

Neutral gear, apply foot operating parking brake, put gear into P?

I have to say, i normally park up, brake, put it into P and then foot operating parking brake last.

If the hill is steep enough for you to consider using the hand/parking brake, then you're doing it wrong Apply the parking brake first so that that the brake has the weight of the car, then put into Park.

I'm with Blobcat though. I've had autos for 30 years & only rarely use the hand/parking brake ..... Never yet broken Paul!

 

[Botus]

if there is ANY incline whatsoever you should ALWAYS use the park brake

this has come up before - the transmission P position is a delicate little additional safety feature and is not designed to hold the car on a hill. true on a Mercedes it is a little more robust than on many cars, but its still abuse. Park on the flat and listen to the noise as it comes out of Park, not much, now park on a gentle incline and do the same, the thud / jolt / abuse as its forced off its pawl is pretty horrendous

we had one Bentley that was all smashed up - he had no parking pawl left and just used to hit other cars all the time... that was on one of the most successful, strongest auto boxes ever made the GM400 (used all almost anything that had a v8 from 1970 to 1990 and the V12 jags), it just had a really fragile P position - and its a 7 hour job to repair it - gearbox out job

we also used to get quite a few V12 jags trailered in and the owner had ripped the change cable trying to get them out of P and couldn't, but broke the car trying

the other benefit of the LEGALLY mandated use of a park brake on any vehicle parked on a public road, is that the hand / park brake still operates well, so it passes its annual MOT

 

[EmilysDad]

I've always considered a hand/parking brake to be inadequate and untrustworthy on it's own as on too many occasions I have returned to a car after applying the brake to a car while hot after a long drive to find that after cooling off the brakes have lost grip on the braked wheel significantly, when I took my test preparing the car to leave it was a three stage process:
....

A lot of cars that use disc brakes all round until recently often had a drum for the hand/parking brake. When parking up, the drums would be hot and so when they cooled down would contract so the drum brake would actually hold even harder than when it was hot. Parking brakes on discs though have the ability to let go when they cooled down ... see Citroen/Peugeot

 

[mioba]

If the OPs sloped driveway ends at a wall, Then I woukd be inclined to get some sleepers or such that one end is against the wall and the other end as a chock, to negate the need to use P brake or Paul.

 

[EmilysDad]

...., to negate the need to use P brake or Paul.

you'll have to use Paul to get the key out .... or depending on the car, the car selects Paul itself when you take the key out.

 

[mioba]

Ahhhh screw Paul

See your point, with something like sleepers the weight on Gbox or Paul wont be so paramount if at all...

just a thought cheers Paul

 

[sonic]

I've always considered a hand/parking brake to be inadequate and untrustworthy on it's own as on too many occasions I have returned to a car after applying the brake to a car while hot after a long drive to find that after cooling off the brakes have lost grip on the braked wheel significantly, when I took my test preparing the car to leave it was a three stage process:
1, Apply he hand/parking brake
2, Put the car in gear, low gear if on an incline, reverse gear if on a decline or P in an auto.
3, Steer the front wheels towards the kerb if on a decline and away if on an incline.
A fourth was introduced in around the mid 70's which was the illumination of offside sidelights if parked overnight on a carriageway facing oncoming traffic. I drove vehicles with electronic parking brakes for long enough until my retirement in 2018 when I bought my current car and soon got back into the habit of ignoring my parking brake.

1 to 3 I was taught that on a HGV instructors course back in 1972.

 

[sonic]

I only used the parking break on an incline,