W210 300 CDi Turbo/Power loss, no acceleration above 90MPH

[Irresistance]

W210 320 CDi Turbo/Power loss, no acceleration above 90MPH

Hello,

So I have purchased a really nice 1999 Estate W210 320 CDi with 120K miles on the clock. Car runs well, everything works, interior is in great nick and, yeah - its a Benz, nothing more to add.

I took it for a drive from Poland to Holland, looking forward to Germany, of course, where I would be able to make it sweat. And so I did. Right, and I mean really JUST before I hit 200.000KM on the odo, suddenly, the car drops from 220KM/h to about 140KM/h, without any option to make it go faster. No matter how much gas I would give, it would not go. Below is an outline of everything I have done since that event.

1) I pulled over, and opened the hood, just to... I dunno.... give myself the illusion I was doing "something". After about 10 minutes started the car up, and power was back, I could go 220KM/h again. Mind you, it SHOULD go 245KM/h so it already appears to be slightly underpowered.

2) After driving at full power for some time, again I loose it and am stuck at a max of 140-150 KM/h and accelerating from 80-90 to 140 takes aaaaages, slowly, and makes hissing sounds. You know how when you accelerate and then slow down you can hear the waste-gate hiss? This, but then when I ACCELERATE, not DECELERATE. As if something is reversed. It also felt like the car was being slowed down by something, kinda like driving with a parking break slightly engaged. Giving LESS gas would in fact result in a slightly less-slow acceleration.

After arriving in Amsterdam I just let it go, the car got me there, and I had other things to do. While driving in thecity it was OK, acceleration seemed normal, turbo worked, all good.

3) 4 days later I am going back home. Power/boost worked for the first... oh... 300KM or so, then I lost it again. After having some lunch I decided to do some tests... so once the car regained boost/power I decided to keep it under 3000-3100 RPM, and 170KM/h. This worked pretty well for about 3-400KM, until again the turbo was seemingly lost. Again it would hiss when ACCELERATING, and by now the noise was very noticeable, especially when driving past near objects (like barricades) it would hiss in tune with the "shape" of said barricades, very noticeably, especially during acceleration and with window open.

4) Today I went to the Mercedes dealership here to get it all checked out. They concluded it is what they call here the "Kollektor", I think in English it is the MANIFOLD IND 613 (part number 613 090 02 37) that needs to be... well they werent very clear on that but I imagine checked and cleaned, as their opinion was such that the valves (I am translating here, could be wrong) are stuck at closed or open and do not operate.


Now - what I need to know from you guys is - does this make sense to you? Do the symptoms seem to match the solution? They quoted me PLN 1200 (about 250 quid) to get it removed, checked, and placed back again (of which 80% is labour) which I think is sort of OK but I would want to be sure that really is the problem. I dont want them to then find out its actually the turbo charger or something else...

So my question would be - how would YOU analize this issue? Does this "Kollektor" part get clogged with gunk and dirt which causes it to be faulty in one way or another? Does it require maintenance so the valves keep being fully functional?

Any thoughts are GREATLY appreciated!

Thank You
W

 

[Irresistance]

Also what I would like to add is that as my return journey to Poland progressed it seemed like the problem started to occur at lower and lower RPM (first only above 3500, then 3000, then seemingly around 2500 even). Also, on the journey to Amsterdam I could not really hear a noticeable hiss, this only happened later.

So more questions:

When I shut down the car, does it "reset" the valves? Has this gradually stopped happening and so now it is just hissing all the time? Does it make sense that only above a certain RPM it just "cant cope" and stops functioning properly? Too high pressure...?

I'll readily admit that I dont really have a clue about any of this, I generally have a good technical understanding and learn quickly but just cant quite place this in my imagination... so if anyone can give me some pointers, much appreciated

 

[Jay Gee]

Hi,Irresistance.First of all,let me say I'm not one of the Merc experts on here,just that this rings a bell.A similar thing happened to W210 E220 CDi owned by a mate.Cutting a very long story short,the fault turned out to be a partially melted inlet manifold !! Repaired 50k miles ago and still ok.Before,it would perform fine for a few days,then went flat for a while.Might be worth a check?May not be the same for a 320 though.

 

[Irresistance]

Hm... it seems the issue I am having is more consistent and persistent. I dont get a few days with turbo - I bought the car about 2 weeks ago, was totally fine for the first week (approx. 900 miles) but in Poland I never quite could put it to the test speed/rpm wise...

Also, in the meantime I have read some more power loss problems and checked the MAF sensor (it is 100% clean, appears to be the original, date on plastic says 99 - I forgot the brand buts its not Bosch, Pfinger or something like that... also, under the air filter right next to the Turbo there is some oil, not much, but obvious, like where you have the little valve operator hands. Are those the ones that are stuck as per my Benz service visit today? I read in some other post that a similar problem could be due to loose, cracked or broken pipes...? I didnt see any but its not an easy place to get to so I dont know for sure.

And last but not least, I do not get any warnings or displays or malfunctions showing.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

There are two transducers under the bonnet that are identical. One is for the EGR, on the right side of the engine bay. The other is for the turbo, and is near the air filter, out of sight.

You can see the EGR one there - its on the extreme right side of the picture, next to the ABS pump. The big pipe into the top has a small yellow band.

You could try swapping the valves over to see if that makes any difference.

This is assuming that the CDi engine is similar enough to the TD engine.

 

[Cole@MBS]

Sounds like the shut of valves on the inlet manifold, getting more common every month, crap way they made this and all made of plastic ( the shut of flaps )

New manifold needed!!

 

[Irresistance]

Hi Sam - short but powerful as usual Hey... does this mean just looking at and cleaning it out (are those flaps swappable/serviceable parts?) will not cut it and I can expect a stern phone call from the MB people telling me I need to spend 500 quid on a new manifold, sorry cant help you otherwise?

 

[Cole@MBS]

New inlet manifold needed, its a throw away world!!

 

[Irresistance]

Is there any place I can find them at a good price? here I got quoted just over 550 quid....

 

[Irresistance]

I have requested a copy of all the things they want to exchange on the manifold. I am curious to know whether this will fix the manifold, or whether it is just a temporary relief from execution of buying a new one after all. See below for all the part numbers. Please note their quote requires only one of each - I would imagine aty least one or two items should be six-fold (one for each pipe) but...

A 611 203 01 08 Anschlussstück
A 611 203 03 80 Dichtbeilage
A 613 094 00 30 Hebel
A 012 997 56 48 Dichtring
A 026 997 37 48 Dichtring
A 613 142 02 80 Dichtbeilage (Waermetauschdeluftverteilerleitung)
A 613 098 01 80 Dichtbeilage (Mischgehaeuseansaugleitung)
A 613 141 01 80 Dichtbeilage (Ladeluftverteilerleitung An Zylinderkopf)

If I understand SAM correctly, the parts that fail in the inlet manifold are the plastic valves. I do not see these valves on this list. Are they serviceable items? Or is the "hebel" which I assume is a "lever" the part that get broken and needs to be swapped?

 

[Irresistance]

Ok well the problem has been fixed, and to be honest I am perplexed and surprised by how simple the solution was. A little lever that operates a valve was loose. Yes, thats it! Like under the intake manifold, not sure what the part name is, but my Indie showed me, he just connected it back, oiled it a bit, and acceleration, power and turbo is back!

Please also realize that MB quoted me about 200 quid for the "repair", and it would not even really address the issue - they wanted to remove and re-place the entire exhaust manifold. Someone else here spoke of needing to replace the wentire intake manifold, which would cost me even more. While I dont assume people have ill intentions I am somewhat taken aback by the discrepancy. Having said that, thank you for your replies and perhaps till a next time

The repaid cost me 10 quid. I paid him 20 for the favour

 

[st4]

Yes, it seems that Indies seem to work better with the older cars. The engines on these cars are pretty tough (as a certain member from another forum will tell you) and pre common rail high pressure injection they seem to cost less to repair and maintain. I stick with the fella that fixed the car for you from now on.

 

[television]

Its often hard to give advice, but the main thing is that you are sorted.

Problems arise when say you have had 20 cars in to fix and its always the same fault,,,but like in any service trade car 21 may be different.

The main thing is to have a good indie and be on good terms with him, it works wonders, and you have a good one. who was he please

 

[Irresistance]

I am in Poland in Torun so I doubt you would have much use for the Indie from where you're sitting But it just shows how weird things sometimes work in this world... This guy just has his small garage next to his house and a shed with parts... when I got there the first time I was a bit unsure to trust this dude living on the outskirts swearing all the time...

But he came recommended from a taxi driver I spoke to (I talked to a few Benz-owning taxi drivers before buying this car just to get some ideas/thoughts) and he certainly seems to know his trade. When I was there 3 more taxis were parked in front of his place so I am guessing he is popular with them...

And if you're curious - he drives a C-class 250 Diesel I always thought it's interesting to know what car a mechanic drives... IMHO that says a lot about the car