W210 Front Tyres Worn on Inside - Suspension?

[wheels-inmotion]

>> that's appreciated, but, fundamentally, what you're up to is advertising your business.

That's not true!! I'm busy enough thanks, i was drawn into this club to reply to a member who used us.

>> abstract concepts which have no tangible aspect

Is that for real?.. The sooner members realise they've been bent over the wheel alignment barrel conn the better.

On a final note, the "historic" pulling problem and tyre wear issues the Merc has i didn't invent, maybe you can explain the reason why these cars suffer from it and how members should deal with it?

 

[television]

That's not true!! I'm busy enough thanks, i was drawn
On a final note, the "historic" pulling problem and tyre wear issues the Merc has i didn't invent, maybe you can explain the reason why these cars suffer from it and how members should deal with it?

That is interesting, WIS has many pages on almost every model "customer complains that the car pulls to the left" on reading most of it they do not offer any real cure.

If you can cure this, then you could make a lot of people happy

 

[wheels-inmotion]

That is interesting, WIS has many pages on almost every model "customer complains that the car pulls to the left" on reading most of it they do not offer any real cure.

If you can cure this, then you could make a lot of people happy

On the webby the only car displayed with pulling problems is the Merc, in the forum there's many more examples but these are for different reasons....

 

[Alex M Grieve]

That is interesting, WIS has many pages on almost every model "customer complains that the car pulls to the left" on reading most of it they do not offer any real cure.

If you can cure this, then you could make a lot of people happy

Used to have this to a greater extent on previous cars, especially when parked on cambered roads. I used to tolerate it for a while, then summon the energy and swap the front wheels side to side. That cured it, at least for quite a while, and it could of course be repeated as and when.

I always felt the case distorted, especially nearside front as the weight of the car parked on a cambered road was pressing on it.

Toady's whizzy tyres might not be interchangeable in this way?

I garage the cars on a horizontal surface where I am now and there is not much camber on roads around here. I have not had the problem for a long time.

 

[television]

Used to have this to a greater extent on previous cars, especially when parked on cambered roads. I used to tolerate it for a while, then summon the energy and swap the front wheels side to side. That cured it, at least for quite a while, and it could of course be repeated as and when.

I always felt the case distorted, especially nearside front as the weight of the car parked on a cambered road was pressing on it.

Toady's whizzy tyres might not be interchangeable in this way?

I garage the cars on a horizontal surface where I am now and there is not much camber on roads around here. I have not had the problem for a long time.

The 129 has never really had this problem Alex, neither has the 230 it seams to be more the mid range cars that suffer

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>> abstract concepts which have no tangible aspect

Is that for real?.. The sooner members realise they've been bent over the wheel alignment barrel conn the better.

Yes. What I mean is that the positions and angles adopted by the wheels - which form the bulk of the discussions of that type on sites like this - are easy enough to explain with Wizard of Oz type obfuscation.

On a final note, the "historic" pulling problem and tyre wear issues the Merc has i didn't invent, maybe you can explain the reason why these cars suffer from it and how members should deal with it?

One of the obvious ingredients which contributes to the problem is that MB cars typically have much larger castor angles than many other makes of car. This will have the side effect of making the cars more sensitive to road camber than other makes. This part of the behaviour can't easily be removed.

The cars do seem to suffer with front wheel geometry that is out of spec which can be corrected using the eccentric bolts.

After that, you're into the bodging territory, incorporating some stagger between the settings on one side of the car when compared with the other.

 

[LYNALL]

After that, you're into the bodging territory, incorporating some stagger between the settings on one side of the car when compared with the other.

Volvo trucks used to have similiar probs and the cure was to heat up the axle beam and bend it to change the settings, volvo said didnt need doing, then they came out with special offset stub axles!



Lynall

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Yes. What I mean is that the positions and angles adopted by the wheels - which form the bulk of the discussions of that type on sites like this - are easy enough to explain with Wizard of Oz type obfuscation.




One of the obvious ingredients which contributes to the problem is that MB cars typically have much larger castor angles than many other makes of car. This will have the side effect of making the cars more sensitive to road camber than other makes. This part of the behaviour can't easily be removed.

The cars do seem to suffer with front wheel geometry that is out of spec which can be corrected using the eccentric bolts.

After that, you're into the bodging territory, incorporating some stagger between the settings on one side of the car when compared with the other.

1: That part of the behaviour is easily removed
2: After year 2000 there are no eccentrics fitted
3: Even the Merc KDS system uses geometric stagger.

 

[turbopete]

im puzzled. if theres no eccentrics fitted after 2000 how is the camber adjusted? as i understood it, the eccentrics were how the camber bolts worked and as the eccentrics wore, the camber became out of spec. or am i wrong here?

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>That part of the behaviour is easily removed

I'm also puzzled (and somewhat incredulous).

 

[turbopete]

>>

(and somewhat incredulous).

thats too big a word for a simple country boy like me! :lol::lol:

 

[wheels-inmotion]

>>That part of the behaviour is easily removed

I'm also puzzled (and somewhat incredulous).

"Incredulous"> not prepared or willing to believe something.

Funny how you didn't question the comment i made about the KDS data? Funny how you didn't question the adjusters?

Your obviously on a mission to discredit any post i make and your making yourself look a fool. For the good of the club i suggest you post something valuable to this thread or simply go sit in the corner!

On your way out and in answer to the question "THE PULLING".

 

[turbopete]

i was puzzled as to how the camber adjusts on post 2000 models if theres no eccentric bolts now? but thats me! i need to know things that i will probably never actually NEED to know!

and thanks for deciphering the big words for me! lol!

 

[Number_Cruncher]

"Incredulous"> not prepared or willing to believe something.

Funny how you didn't question the comment i made about the KDS data? Funny how you didn't question the adjusters?

I wrote;

One of the obvious ingredients which contributes to the problem is that MB cars typically have much larger castor angles than many other makes of car. This will have the side effect of making the cars more sensitive to road camber than other makes. This part of the behaviour can't easily be removed.

You wrote;

1: That part of the behaviour is easily removed

I don't believe that, because as long as the car has a lot of castor, it will be sensitive to camber. It's a direct result of the geometry, and, therefore the coupling effect cannot be removed.

I didn't feel the need to mention the other 2 points, because I could not believe what had been written in the first point.

 

[Coulsdon Eagle]

I've often wondered if those 'speed-pillows' they use on roads as traffic calming measures cause unnecessary problems, y'know the type i mean? the small hump placed in the centre of each side of the road, i dont know about anyone else, but i tend to position my van so the hump passes as near central as possible, but the inner part of the tyre always catches the sides of the pillow, i'm guessing they cant do the tyres or suspension much good at all, thoughts?

 

[wheels-inmotion]

I wrote;

One of the obvious ingredients which contributes to the problem is that MB cars typically have much larger castor angles than many other makes of car. This will have the side effect of making the cars more sensitive to road camber than other makes. This part of the behaviour can't easily be removed.

You wrote;


I don't believe that, because as long as the car has a lot of castor, it will be sensitive to camber. It's a direct result of the geometry, and, therefore the coupling effect cannot be removed.

I didn't feel the need to mention the other 2 points, because I could not believe what had been written in the first point.

Where are we going with this? As i said before the couple can be staggered and belay any pull, this is not "bogging" since it's the same method Merc use with the KDS software.... Or do you disagree with that as well?

 

[wheels-inmotion]

I've often wondered if those 'speed-pillows' they use on roads as traffic calming measures cause unnecessary problems, y'know the type i mean? the small hump placed in the centre of each side of the road, i dont know about anyone else, but i tend to position my van so the hump passes as near central as possible, but the inner part of the tyre always catches the sides of the pillow, i'm guessing they cant do the tyres or suspension much good at all, thoughts?

No.... The tyres would deflect and the suspension compress in a natural arc, this is assuming you don't hit it at 90mph.

 

[Coulsdon Eagle]

No.... The tyres would deflect and the suspension compress in a natural arc, this is assuming you don't hit it at 90mph.

i wouldn't even know if the van would do 90mph :wink:

there's loads of these pillows around here, i do carry goods, so the van is laden quite a bit, my rear tyres have worn more on the inside, and as it's front wheel drive, i just wondered if it made any difference at all

 

[wheels-inmotion]

i wouldn't even know if the van would do 90mph :wink:

there's loads of these pillows around here, i do carry goods, so the van is laden quite a bit, my rear tyres have worn more on the inside, and as it's front wheel drive, i just wondered if it made any difference at all

The 90mph is a challenge set then

The Vito has an adjustable rear chassis with target positions taken from the laden chassis rake..... Simply meaning (before i get told off) if the geo measures the mean average load positions then the target data is more customized to your parameters.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

The Vito has an adjustable rear chassis with target positions taken from the laden chassis rake..... Simply meaning (before i get told off) if the geo measures the mean average load positions then the target data is more customized to your parameters.

Sorry WIM, but those sentences demonstrate my point perfectly. No-one who isn't already expert could possibly decipher that lot. Yes, all of the words on their own are intelligible,....

I know you think I'm trying to attack and undermine you, but, I'm not. Honestly.


You have a good repuation for fixing the cars. I have no dispute with that.

You do not need to dress up what you do, you don't need to make it sound more technical than the man in the street can understand, you don't need to sell like a snake oil salesman - what you are offering is better than that.