W210 starting problems

[lyndonri]

Hi everyone. I have tried to start my car today and I have not been able to do so. It is continually turning the engine over and spluttering, whilst A LOT of white smoke is pouring out of the exhaust. It finally 'kind of' idled at far too low revs (less that 500) and sounded like a bag of spanners. Is it simply the 'air-in-the-fuel-lines' problem?

 

[Ellsy Tanners]

White smoke is ussualy a indication of coolant and oil being burnt, or trying to burn as the case seems. do you have oil in your coolant resoivor or is the lovel low?
Possible head gasket

 

[BlackC55]

Unlikely head gasket. I suspect its the fuel lines are leaking air in.

 

[lyndonri]

Coolant looks OK, although the hydraulic reservoir is at it's minimum level.

I asked someone to start the car while I watched the lines. The uppermost pipe on the filter is drawing in air which I assume is either from that connection or within the filter. Perhaps I should try and refit the filter?

There seemed to be a burning smell and also some loud tapping/banging from the engine area. Is this only because the engine hasn't had time to settle?

Thanks

 

[Daeths]

I had an airleak on my 210 disel also from the top pipe from the filter. From knowledge learned on this forum it is usually the o-rings at a couple of pence each. HOWEVER, on mine the fuel line had a crack in the middle as opposed to at the ends where it joins. To be sure pull the corrugate plastic sleeve off your fuel line to check, it will be obvious if you have a problem. If the pipe is gone I rec a proper MB part as it is shaped (and needs to be) and from memory I got change from £18.

Rgds

Adam

 

[lyndonri]

OK, I removed the plastic part that the fuel line fixes on to at the top of the filter. It has an O-ring. I cleaned the fitment and the area around it and applied a little grease to help seal it. I think it has helped a little. However...

The engine fires up and idles very noisily and at very low revs. Pressing the throttle does not do anything and the worst bit is, there is a lot of whitish smoke everywhere - seemingly coming from either exhaust or underneath the car, and a strong burning smell. I am now getting worried at the prospect of some major repair bills...

I shall contact my indie in Pontypridd tomorrow morning! In the meantime, can anyone suggest a quick fix - if there is one...

Lyndon

 

[FIBAMAN]

Lyndon, are you sure it is white smoke and not atomised unburnt fuel?
Just had similar problem with mine and it was failed glow plugs, hence the need to crank hard to get ignition, and subsequent clouds of white "smoke". Once the engine did fire it would run a bit lumpy until all cylinders eventually started firing.
Bought new set of plugs from Euro (about £45) and fitted by local garage for £35 - bargain or what?:lol::lol:

 

[television]

Thanks for your post Fibaman, that helps people like me who do not know that much about diesels

 

[jibcl500]

Has any work been done on the engine recently???????? could it be the fuel pump is out of alignment with the engine timing hence the white smoke, unburnt fuel.

jib

 

[FIBAMAN]

Thanks for your post Fibaman, that helps people like me who do not know that much about diesels

Thanks Malcolm, like to to my bit if I can. I have operated, maintained and repaired diesels from 2hp to 25,000 bhp (9 cyl x 900mm bore)., but am not upto date on all the new electronic side of high speed diesels (that big one did rated output at 103 rpm).

 

[television]

Thanks Malcolm, like to to my bit if I can. I have operated, maintained and repaired diesels from 2hp to 25,000 bhp (9 cyl x 900mm bore)., but am not upto date on all the new electronic side of high speed diesels (that big one did rated output at 103 rpm).

9 cyl x 900mm bore, yes a little on the large size, I have always been fascinated by the engineering on those monsters, the fly wheels are something else.

Electronics is easy if you have been doing it 55 years or more, but always something new to learn and a new fault that no one has ever heard will come along tomorrow.

 

[lyndonri]

Had a report form my local indie after he had spent some time on the car:

Firstly he asked if I had used unleaded fuel instead of diesel. Unlikely, but I have no receipt and now am doubting myself!

They have replaced the fuel shut off valve (I think) and now have fuel being correctly delivered to the engine.

However, I have been told that cylinder 6 has little or no compression. It appears that fuel is being thrown straight into the cylinder and out through the exhaust, burning or evaporating en-route, causing white smoke. I have been told that it may be as 'simple' as a knackered valve. I have also been told that it may be more serious and will require removal of the cylinder head in any case to establish the overall damage. Additionally, it is recommended that the injectors are refurbished/cleaned - at extra cost.

I am now faced with a bill that is likely to be close on a grand (including initial assessment and valve) at best or a replacement engine ££££££!! at worst!

Can anyone comment on the above and confirm or otherwise if I am understanding the situation correctly?

At present, I think I shall ask for the head to be removed and see where we go from there.

There must be a point, however, that it may become economically unfeasible to repair? Do you replace an engine in a 10 year old car?

Plus we're supposed to be going away this weekend and they can't look at the car 'til next Wednesday!!!

Please help a confused and worried Mercedes owner

PS. I am also thinking of keeping an eye out for a W124 estate as an alternative if it all goes Pete-Tong. Any thoughts?

Lyndon

 

[lyndonri]

Update...

After a full test, cylinder 6 has no compression and 5 is very poor. The head has been removed and I have been told that it needs to be skimmed, and a valve(s) needs to be replaced, (not sure which one(s)). The lower part of the engine apparently looks in good shape with no scoring on the cylinders, which is good news.

The head is being sent off for refurbishment, as are the injectors. The fuel tank is being removed to clear out 10 years of debris and the fuel lines have all been checked for a clear flow of diesel, along with a new shut off valve.

All in all a good overhaul, IMO!! I'm hoping for a new lease of life and another 160,000 miles of service.

I will report when I get the car back - another week, I expect.

Now what about that rust...?

 

[television]

Thank you for the good news and updating us

 

[lyndonri]

After having the repairs done at a cost of £1800 I still have air coming in to to fuel lines exiting the fuel filter assembly. Apparently, the cast housing that the filter fits into can become porous and introduces air to the lines.

I have looked at the lines with my indie and I can see that the fuel coming in to the filter is clear and the outlet is streaming with air. They have ordered the part and will be fitting it tomorrow.

Can anyone confirm this diagnosis?

 

[BlackC55]

After having the repairs done at a cost of £1800 I still have air coming in to to fuel lines exiting the fuel filter assembly. Apparently, the cast housing that the filter fits into can become porous and introduces air to the lines.

I have looked at the lines with my indie and I can see that the fuel coming in to the filter is clear and the outlet is streaming with air. They have ordered the part and will be fitting it tomorrow.

Can anyone confirm this diagnosis?

That diagnosis seems spot on.

 

[lyndonri]

Problems are still ongoing...

The air problem has been solved now; it wasn't the bracket, just another couple of pipes replaced.

However, the car has not started properly yet and it is still with the garage. The fuel lines are clear, there is no air in them, the injectors are working correctly, compression is fine etc, etc. My indie was told by MB to have the injector pump checked, which has been on test with a diesel specialist and has operated for 16 hours without fault! They have now suggested that the camshaft sensors are changed in case they are faulty, although there are no faults on the engine management.

I know nothing about these things, so am looking for any help, as my indie is now starting to clutch at straws and I don't want to have to take it to MB's

Yours,
Car-less....

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Try parking it overnight with the nose down to reduce the amount of fuel flowing back to the tank if you still have a leak. Also check the glowplugs are working correctly. Check the prefilter and main filter aren't blocked with any gunk that came from your fuel tank while being removed/cleaned. For that matter, check the tank is connected correctly! Its possible to 'rewire' the lines around the fuel filter so you're not using the fuel tank. The instructions are here:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=113596

Also check the fuel shutoff valve is working correctly - the engine will never start if the valve is permanently closed.

Make sure the 6 delivery valves on top of the injector pump are working correctly - I believe they're very sensitive to being disturbed.

Might also be an idea to disconnect the exhaust from the manifold and try starting it (its only a clip), in case its blocked.

 

[lyndonri]

Thanks for the help - I'll mention a few things to my indie

However, I made a slight mistake - it is the crankshaft sensors that have been recommended to be changed. I don't know if this makes a difference to the diagnosis at all?

 

[television]

The crankshaft sender is a known common reason for poor starting and the engine stopping