W210 Sunroof woes and how to cure them

[karl121]

I've got a problem when trying synchronize the electric motor with the roof mechanism. I am including some pictures to clarify the problem:

1 º I try to synchronize the electric motor with the roof mechanism, which is the final step after reparing the sunroof.
2 ° It is found that pressing the roof switch, the movements see red arrows for (sliding close) and for (tilt close) do not move the electric motor. The other two movements see green arrows move the motor.
3 ° It is found that the pushbuttons of the pc board are working as shown in the photo.

I hope someone can provide some ideas because I lack the electronic scheme of the pc board and dont know what to do.
I have try to use another pc board from a scrap but is doing exactly the same so i wonder if the problem is related with a 2-wire bus that seems to go to Can Bus???

Thanks and regards.

Here the link to the images
http://imageshack.us/f/31/pcblayout.jpg
http://imageshack.us/f/716/roofswitch1.jpg

 

[brandwooddixon]

Did you follow step 5 before attaching the cables to the motor?

Before fitting the motor, pull/push the mechanism into the fully tilted position (on both sides). This is because the flat position is not the sunroof closed position. Push the roof switch as if you were tilting the roof to its fullest extent and wait for the motor to stop. This ensures that the cables and motor are synchronised to the same position.

If you did then perhaps your motor is already in the full tilt position.

I guess that you could try synchronising it based on the fully open (slide) position.

 

[karl121]

Hi brandwooddixon thanks for your response.

If you see the picture http://imageshack.us/f/716/roofswitch1.jpg
in my case in order to syncronize the following actions must be done:

1º full slide close what you call fully pull (this is not working, see the red arrow in the picture)
2º full tilt open what you call fully push (this is working, see green arrow in the picture).

And the question in case step 5 was already done is, why the motor is not running in the slide close and tilt close directions? Even i can slide open until motor stop but after this i can not slide close, why?

Finally also i must say that depending of W210 version model you can find 2 different roof control units, the older goes to a N10/1 control unit and the newer goes to N70 control unit (this is my case), and i dont know if this is important but there is two wires that goes to the BUS CAN.

So.... waiting for more ideas, thanks a lot.

 

[karl121]

I can also give some more information.
The roof switch is working on the following way:
-when slide open = the motor runs during 1 second and stop (so works as the sqare signal coming from one of the hall sensors is not present??)

-when tilt open = the motor runs during 25 seconds and stop

-when slide close and tilt close = the motor desn't run

i have tried in order to synchronizing

1. With the car not running, turn the ignition switch to the position 2 and;
2. Press on the back of the switch as if to pop up the back of the sun roof (tilt up) and contiue pressing for ten seconds (I pressed for 15);
3. stop pressing and leave the ignition on for another ten or fifteen seconds.
But this is not working cause the slide close and tilt close are still not working.
Is there any other way for synchronizing?? or why i can not synchronizing??
My car is year 98 - 290TD W210
Thanks in advance

 

[southpaw]

Cable supplier

Anyone have a good source for the cables U S supplier. Looking for a good price value. Thank You.

BTW EBay suppliers list them at $70/side. or more.

 

[southpaw]

Well, I did it. E430 sunroof/moonroof did not work when I bought it 2nd hand. Owner said piece of cake and cheap price for the cables. His pants are on fire. I accidentally hit the open button ( which I told myself never to do ) and the roof moved fractionally and stalled. Worried about rain seepage ( we get that in So Florida in vast quantities), I refound this tip post. Bought the cables ( not cheap + $160) and decided to get into it. This thread is invaluable. Could not have remotely figured this out on my own. After following the step by step procedure and finding the spaghetti shaped cable mess, I realized previous owner had been in there, attempted the extra hold down screw for the cable non foul blocks and gave up. I found those cable retainers using the part # provided in one of the posts and ordered them. Can't wait for 2 week delivery so I put it back together without them in place, vowing to not accidentally hitting the open button until I go back in and replace the retainers. I chose to handcrank the roof in order to seat the roof in place. Worked like a charm.

Many thanks to the OP, the site and the thread posters for their invaluable assistance.

BTW, I consider myself to be an expert on this procedure... now. Hah

P S. I even recovered the sliding sun block panel while I was in there. The previous owner ripped the old fabric off and left a dried glue surface to look at. Trip to the fabric store, got some vinyl and adhesive and Voila. Did cut the poo out of my index finger by grabbing the working side of a single edge razor blade while trimming the excess. That was very stupid... but typical of me.

 

[southpaw]

I am putting my sunroof on my e430 back into play since it was inoperative when I bought it. This thread and the pics have been invaluable. I have replaced the cables, etc. Now I have 2 parts that the owner gave me and I was told they are part of the sunroof, but he wasn't sure what they were and where they went.

#1 part 210 732 02 31

Baffle mount. Slide. Sunroof Slide. .
Part Number: 2107820231 Don't know where it goes and if it is necessary. Any ideas or pics?

#2 part no number

I believe it might be the front sunroof deflector. Couold this be the piece referred to in step 1 of the procedure series? Thank you for any and all assistance.

 

[ianwalter]

Thanks for the guide!

EXcellent step by step guide - thanks. I followed it today and replaced the sunroof flexi-drive cables on my 1998 E320. It is quite a tricky and time consuming job but well worth the effort - my sunroof now works perfectly!

 

[barnaclebill]

I have been putting off this 'fix' for the last 12 months until I saw your excellent posts this morning. Should be straight forward, I thought, and plucked up the courage to give it a go. The problem appears to be on the passenger side of the mechanism i.e. there is virtually no movement there at all apart from sufficient 'tilt' for me to be at the stage where I have been able to remove the sunroof glass and rear drip tray. Now I am stuck !!!

I haven't done anything, as yet, with regards accessing the motor, but that seems simple enough (hopefully).

I am reluctant, at this stage to go any further particularly as I cannot get any movement at all from the mechanism above the passenger side. I am not clear as to where the Philips screws are to access the cable covers and thus reluctant to dismantle any further - I was kind of hoping that I could see the cables and assess what the problem is. You refer to sliding the mechanism back in order to remove the cables, but as I have no movement on the 'port' side I do not know if this will be possible. Please can you give me some advice as how to proceed from here.

I am working outside as I have no garage and sod's law the heaven's have just opened. I have replaced the rear drip tray and put the glass panel back in situ.

 

[barnaclebill]

sunroof situation as at 07/05/16

Basically this is where I am at...... the right-hand/driver's side which has full tilt and 75% retraction before the horrible 'clicking' using the power switch.

The left-hand/passenger side which is stuck in approx 25% tilt and NO movement whatsoever.......the driver's side is moving independently on the power switch

 

[barnaclebill]

sunroof situation

further to my last - it should have read 0% retraction. Have been able to successfully remove the cable from the driver's side, but the passenger side is virtually seized in situ with a max. 1/2 inch movement using a flat bladed screwdriver and hammer......perhaps a bigger hammer is needed

 

[Dools]

Hi,
Great post!
I wonder if you can help me with my sunroof problem? I have recently got a C215 and the sunroof isn't closing 100% and it will not tilt, if I could tilt it I'm assuming I would be able to gain access to the tilt mechanism to see what the problem might be? any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[television]

Have you tried to memorize it.

 

[Taffy7hfa]

Sunroofs .... more trouble than they're worth imo

 

[Dools]

Hi, I tried to do the reset sequence, I was told to hold the button in the open position for 5 seconds, then closed position, tilt then down. Is that correct?
But as it will not tilt I'm assuming that it's not completing the sequence??

 

[Needleroozer]

What to do if your sunroof is stuck shut.

Step 1: Remove the glass sunroof panel.

Slide the sunroof open a few inches. Mine would still do this electrically.
Remove the plastic trim along the front edge, by levering it away from the end and pulling it down. Be careful not to break the clips. Try not to rotate it too much.

(IMG)

Next we need to slide the sunroof closed and tilt it open in order to remove the side belows, one on each side. These simply clip on.

(IMG)

Behind these belows we can see the retaining screws for the glass panel. You'll need a T25 Torx bit and there are 3 on each side.

(IMG)

Once removed you should now be able to remove the glass panel.

My problem was that my sunroof won't open. In fact, it's not quite closed and is actually down a bit in back, so the instructions to "tilt it open to remove the side bellows" were the brick wall that stopped me (not to mention "Slide the sunroof open a few inches... Remove the plastic trim along the front edge").

Today I figured it out. The MB video and your picture are not clear how the front trim comes off, but really it's just a matter of having a plastic pry tool and the guts to really force it. It comes off straight down, but that assumes the sunroof is partly opened. With it fully closed it has to rotate down in back a bit, but it's best if you can pull it straight down. Be careful - I managed to break one tab in the process.

As for the bellows, both the video and these instructions say pop the sunroof up in back first, which mine won't do, then remove the bellows starting from the rear. In fact, mine has dropped even further in back since I bought the car and I've had to tape the opening shut to keep rain out, which is what drove me to try and get this thing fixed!

If your sunroof won't open here's the secret: take the bellows off from the front, after removing the front trim. It really helps to shine a flashlight on it as you're looking at black parts in shadows. The flexible bellows are attached to hard plastic strips that run along the top and bottom edges of the bellows. The bottom strip rides in a channel in the frame and slides back and forth as the sunroof opens and closes; the top strip has a "U" cross-section and clips to the sunroof itself. If you grab these hard plastic strips - not the bellows - at the front of the sunroof and pull them toward the center of the car they come right out. Slip a finger or two behind the bellows (outboard, between the bellows and the frame) like the guy in the video and the whole thing comes right out, even though the sunroof is closed.

Because the sunroof is closed and not popped open, the six torx screws holding it in place are harder to see and reach, but it's not impossible. Definitely easier if you can pop your's up in back. If your sunroof is stuck open you won't be able to reach those screws (or I suspect remove the bellows) so it seems you folks are stuck with removing the headliner.

That's it! Now I have to order new cables and some grease and wait for a sunny day to finish the job. Several body shops all told me they don't do sunroofs and I should take it to the dealer. These forums and my desperation/willingness to risk breaking what are essentially trim pieces just saved me a ton of money. Special thanks to brandwooddixon for the invaluable instructions.

 

[Needleroozer]

There's nothing to stop the new cables kinking other than keeping the slider tracks lubricated.

The problem is that once kinked the cables remain that way and will nearly always pop out under the covers.

My Mechanical Engineering professor said Thermodynamics and the rest all have three laws, Mechanical Engineering should, too. He suggested:
1) f=ma
2) You can't push on a rope
3) When in doubt, integrate

Apparently MB forgot rule #2.

 

[Needleroozer]

I have some info to add. First, as stated by others the new cables come with fittings for M4 bolts/screws. brandwooddixon said he had to cut his to fit. The size you need are 10mm, so just get M4-10s and no cutting needed.

Second, if you get the new covers they have holes for two screws. Turns out the self-tappers used to hold the factory cables are perfect for this. However, the fastening is odd and requires you drill new holes for the new screws. The covers fit over as in straddle rectangles that are fixed to the car. The screw passes through a hole in the cover, another hole in that rectangle, and then tap into the part of the cover on the other side of the rectangle. You'll need to drill a second hole in the rectangle for the second screw. I chose a bit that was closest to the existing hole size (don't remember what that was), put the new cover in place, and marked the second hole's center by twisting the bit in the cover hole by hand. Then I removed the cover, drilled a pilot hole with my smallest bit, and finally used the larger bit. It's plastic and not very thick so it drills fast. It left nice spiral shavings that were easy to clean up. Do all that before you install the new cables. When you attach the covers you'll be tapping new threads in the new cover and it's easy to overtighten and strip them, so be gentle. As we say, "fully driven, seated, but not stripped".

 

[Needleroozer]

I can also give some more information.
The roof switch is working on the following way:
-when slide open = the motor runs during 1 second and stop (so works as the sqare signal coming from one of the hall sensors is not present??)

-when tilt open = the motor runs during 25 seconds and stop

-when slide close and tilt close = the motor desn't run

i have tried in order to synchronizing

1. With the car not running, turn the ignition switch to the position 2 and;
2. Press on the back of the switch as if to pop up the back of the sun roof (tilt up) and contiue pressing for ten seconds (I pressed for 15);
3. stop pressing and leave the ignition on for another ten or fifteen seconds.
But this is not working cause the slide close and tilt close are still not working.
Is there any other way for synchronizing?? or why i can not synchronizing??
My car is year 98 - 290TD W210
Thanks in advance

Did you ever sort this out? After replacing my tracks I have a similar issue. Forward and down don't work; up works for forward and then continues through and raises the back; down drops the back and then continues on with regular opening. Holding down runs for a few seconds then stops; release the switch and hold down again gets another few seconds. Holding up runs and runs and runs (at first I thought it was syncronizing).

Is this a motor issue or a switch issue?

 

[Needleroozer]

Did you ever sort this out? After replacing my tracks I have a similar issue. Forward and down don't work; up works for forward and then continues through and raises the back; down drops the back and then continues on with regular opening. Holding down runs for a few seconds then stops; release the switch and hold down again gets another few seconds. Holding up runs and runs and runs (at first I thought it was syncronizing).

Is this a motor issue or a switch issue?

I found the/an answer, in case anyone else is searching. For me it was a synchronization issue. Push up on the switch until the panel is fully open in back then hold it for another two seconds. All should be well. This is similar to synchronizing the power windows after battery removal but wasn't in the Owner's Manual.