W219 CLS - LED H7 Headlights Installd (Novsight)

[Gazwould]

What do you think about people who go 1-4 mph over the speed limit ?

 

[LostKiwi]

What do you think about people who go 1-4 mph over the speed limit ?

Not the same thing. It's daft to suggest it is. One is a permanent illegality that's present all the time. The other is not. One inconveniences other drivers, the other probably doesn't. There is no way to justify them they are illegal. Full stop.
Irrespective what I think of speeding I wouldn't suggest someone else does it.
Incidentally even the seller linked to (Powerbulbs) says they aren't road legal.

 

[Gazwould]

OK type approval and all that but there must be some good kits about that place the led in same place as halogen filament etc .

Type approval may involve huge sums like oil manufacturer spec approval and thus is a marketing decision .

I was scared driving another car with stock bulbs until an improvement with uprated .

 

[LostKiwi]

OK type approval and all that but there must be some good kits about that place the led in same place as halogen filament etc .

Type approval may involve huge sums like oil manufacturer spec approval and thus is a marketing decision .

I was scared driving another car with stock bulbs until an improvement with uprated .

No type approval is not a marketing decision.
I've said this before countless times. You cannot get approval for any non-halogen bulb using an H1/3/4/7/11/15 fitment. The rules regarding type approval clearly specify the construction of the bulb, specifically the placement of the filament. LED and HiD don't have filaments so can't comply.
As I have always said, if you want to upgrade your lights do it properly. In most cases the manufacturer has other vehicles in the model line up that have HiD or LED headlights. Get the entire headlight unit from them. Yes it costs more but it's legal, has properly designed optics and won't cause issues down the line.
Can you build an LED that will put the lighting elements in the right place? No. The filament is a fixed length light source that is exactly at the focus of the reflector. It provides around 350 degrees of radial illumination (the 10 degree gap being caused by the top filament support wire) around the axis of the bulb.
An LED must have a mounting plate for the LEDs (typically 2 to 6) to sit on. This plate is typically 2-3mm thick hence the light source is now away from the focal point of the reflector. Further, the mounting plate casts two large shadows. To aggravate it further an LEDs light output is to a certain extent directional. An LED can therefore never replace an H series bulb and get the same results.
In this respect HiDs are better (better radial light spread, point source lighting) but in the case of HiDs the point source is too short thus not properly using the reflector causing gaps and hot spots in the beam pattern. Even 1mm difference in placement of the light source relative to the reflector can have a large impact on beam pattern.

 

[Gazwould]

I hope things change amicably one day , because there's one thing certain in life it's subject to change .

And am thankful for my factory xenons and just can't get over Van Helsing's coach candles pass an mot with oxidised plastic headlamps , alignment is priority over output .

 

[LostKiwi]

I hope things change amicably one day , because there's one thing certain in life it's subject to change .

And am thankful for my factory xenons and just can't get over Van Helsing's coach candles pass an mot with oxidised plastic headlamps , alignment is priority over output .

Cleanliness is more important than both.
As much as people deride Halogens I have no complaints about the ones on the 210 or the Roadster. The 129 is a little poor but still adequate.

 

[Craiglxviii]

This was never intended to be a an aggressive thread but, rather one that lists information for anyone who may need it should they wish to go down a LED or HID route of their own choosing which, would enable them to ensure they have all they need to avoid issues and a lot of wasted time as I found out. Modifications can be done both poorly and well despite legalities. (Anyway, there have been some great points highlighted that were new to me).

I am now running the following LED setup in my dipped beam on the W219;

+ hole required in dust cap to feed decoder through
+ rubber gromit to plug the hole
+ enlarge the gap on the metal bulb holder (dremel tool)

Without the additional decoder, despite leaving the car running for 15 minutes to check that there is no flicker or other issues, nothing was noticed. One evening when I was returning home in the dark, after a few minutes I noticed the the LEDs would turn off/on randomly, only one at any time. If I put the fog lights on, the LEDs remained stable. So embarrasingly I drove home wih front fogs on to ensure the LEDs remained stable. This was embarrasing enough for me as I have never used front fogs in 20 years or so of driving and in my opinion they are only used by posers who can't drive for toffee.

The LED bulb itself fits without the need to modify the dust cap. However, as an additional decoder is required for this model, the dust cap, will need a hole drilling. I used a generic LED/HID rubber dust cap to seal up the hole in the plastic cap and feed the cable through the the rubber gromit to keep it tight.

SUMMARY

Had I known that the LEDs would turn out to be this much hassle on the W219, I would have just gone for a good quality 5000K HID H7 kit and be done with it.

I am not sure how long the Novsight LED bulbs will last but, I have the following GT Ultra Osram chip, 5700K kit sat in the garage now as well, and its what I would buy if I had I seen it beforehand. It looks well made and the decorder sounds top notch (may not need an additional one) and the colour temperature is closer to my preference of 5000K.

https://www.powerbulbs.com/product/gt-ultra-led-h7-twin

SIDE LIGHTS (not pictured)

If you decide to use T10 w5w side lights you will need the following decoder;

The cabling all still fits inside the side light housing and cap but it starts to get busy in there. Whilst I personally use Philips T10 LED w5w bulbs in my vehicles for side lights, in also tried canbus error free MTEC platinum T10 LEDs. Both needed the decorder to be flicker free.

After testing, I just thought f*ck it, I don't want extra cabling so threw in a set of normal Philips White Vision w5w bulbs, which are claimed to be 4200K in the ir updated guise. This gets rid of the urine yellow light provided by the original side light bulbs.

And it’s still illegal.

 

[Craiglxviii]

What LK said and with knobs on.

Optical clarity and beam pattern control is far more important than luminous flux density. That’s why the new crop of LED ILS coming out, led by Osram’s SMARTRIX system are all rated at 1990 fixture lumens (65% of HiD) and yet provide far superior dynamic lighting. And yes, they’re homologated to the car by the OEM for each market they’re sold in- not merely type approved.

If anyone is particularly bored with life I can give chapter and verse on why LED beam patterns are cack in a reflector lamp, suffice it to say that an LED projects two cones of light simultanaeoisly, each of different brightness. Carelessness with chip placement results in interference patterns, colour splitting and poor control. Just like the OPs images showed. LEDs require special optics, either remote phoshors or optically coupled Collins tor’s to prevent edge bleed. All that is impossible in a reflector or projector lamp.

Go and look at a properly designed LED lamp and you’ll see that it’s a flat PCB with the chips mounted in a geometric array, to provide easy CFD analysis of the thermal distribution pattern. It’s notjing at all like the monstrosities seen here. That’s for good reason.....

 

[star]

Just collected an R class with H7 halogen lights, omg. They are dangerous. Whereas one of my loan cars, a 202 C class has what you call normal and acceptable light output with the same bulbs. Mercs have got these standard H7 lights so wrong in later cars.

 

[DSK]

My 20 year old volvo’s with the original reflectors also work well enough on normal H7 halogen bulbs. CLS may as well have not been fitted with head lights on the other hand.

 

[Liam.Moran]

I'm looking at swapping the original H7 halogen projectors in my CLS with morimoto d2s 5.0 bi-xenon projectors, much better light control, much better cut off and made for a HID bulb, not a terrible retrofit that will burn a halogen projector

They same company also sells a h7 LED kit which is supposed to be a really good Plug and play bulb which I'm tempted to use as highbeam (the bi-xenon projector will do all the work anyway)

Really the H4's on my 190 in a reflector headlight have a much better output than my Projector H7... Why mercedes didn't fit a 60k car with xenons as standard I'll never know they are dangerous.

there are a few companies here in the UK that will carry out such work with this company being one of the best https://emtuning.co.uk/

 

[LostKiwi]

I'm looking at swapping the original H7 halogen projectors in my CLS with morimoto d2s 5.0 bi-xenon projectors, much better light control, much better cut off and made for a HID bulb, not a terrible retrofit that will burn a halogen projector

They same company also sells a h7 LED kit which is supposed to be a really good Plug and play bulb which I'm tempted to use as highbeam (the bi-xenon projector will do all the work anyway)

Really the H4's on my 190 in a reflector headlight have a much better output than my Projector H7... Why mercedes didn't fit a 60k car with xenons as standard I'll never know they are dangerous.

there are a few companies here in the UK that will carry out such work with this company being one of the best https://emtuning.co.uk/

Very questionable legality.
Just retrofit the factory HiDs and be done with it.

 

[Liam.Moran]

Very questionable legality.
Just retrofit the factory HiDs and be done with it.

I'm starting with a (broken) factory set of HiD factory. Working headlights Factory HiDs for a W219 are very expensive and not the best, with the age most factory sets need a new projector anyway

 

[Craiglxviii]

I'm starting with a (broken) factory set of HiD factory. Working headlights Factory HiDs for a W219 are very expensive and not the best, with the age most factory sets need a new projector anyway

Why do they need a new projector? What’s your data and fact to support that statement?

I’d be interested in your data and fact that OEM HID units for a W219 “are not the best”. Do you have beam pattern data for the OEM units and competitors? Goniophotometer data?

Anyway. Your proposal is still illegal.

 

[Liam.Moran]

Why do they need a new projector? What’s your data and fact to support that statement?

I’d be interested in your data and fact that OEM HID units for a W219 “are not the best”. Do you have beam pattern data for the OEM units and competitors? Goniophotometer data?

Anyway. Your proposal is still illegal.

What people have said about the projectors in the past, before and after shots/videos of people preforming the
same upgrade (mostly in the states) from the factory HiDs to the newer projectors. the projectors are DOT approved for the American market, while not legal, unless someone tears apart my headlight (putting into an oven, removing the seal) no one would ever know (excluding the LED mainbeam which I don't think I'll bother with anyway)

 

[Craiglxviii]

Very questionable legality.
Just retrofit the factory HiDs and be done with it.

It’s not questionable. It’s plain illegal. The car has safety equipment fitted not as homologated or concessed.

 

[Craiglxviii]

What people have said about the projectors in the past, before and after shots/videos of people preforming the
same upgrade (mostly in the states) from the factory HiDs to the newer projectors. the projectors are DOT approved for the American market, while not legal, unless someone tears apart my headlight (putting into an oven, removing the seal) no one would ever know (excluding the LED mainbeam which I don't think I'll bother with anyway)

So, no fact and data and they’re illegal then..?

 

[Liam.Moran]

It’s not questionable. It’s plain illegal. The car has safety equipment fitted not as homologated or concessed.

I never said it was questionable, but the stock "safety equipment" is crap, plus said equipment is homologated stateside.

 

[Liam.Moran]

So, no fact and data and they’re illegal then..?

Not forcing you to buy them, if you're interesting have a look around the web, plenty of info on these projectors.

 

[LostKiwi]

I never said it was questionable, but the stock "safety equipment" is crap, plus said equipment is homologated stateside.

Makes no difference. If you drive outside the US they aren't legal and will invalidate your insurance. US lighting is very different to ours. Beam pattern is different, cut off is different (theirs is less sharp with more bleed).
I seriously doubt they'd go into your headlights without a fair bit of fettling.

There are also 2 sides to safety. Firstly (and most importantly) safety for other road users. Secondary to that is your safety - after all you can slow down if it feels unsafe.