What is happening to common sense with mot tests in uk ? And easy traffic police job

[truthfindergeneral]

Having just read through the trial of the traffic officer who killed the young Newcastle girl whilst driving at 94 mph at night with out lights and sirens and following on from the case of the south wales officer who crashed a marked bmw car at 100 mph in the rain on the M4 , I would find it hard to take a verbal volley about speed and it's dangers from such people.

 

[st4]

Having just read through the trial of the traffic officer who killed the young Newcastle girl whilst driving at 94 mph at night with out lights and sirens and following on from the case of the south wales officer who crashed a marked bmw car at 100 mph in the rain on the M4 , I would find it hard to take a verbal volley about speed and it's dangers from such people.

Thats the problem these days with the government and police. Its a case of

"Don't do as I do, but do as I say".

The marked BMW hat hit over speeds of 120mph prior to the collision. Its a miracle (depending on how you see it) that the driver made it out of that alive...

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

as i say there are police in my family, the real police. i have given my view on the traffic cops so no need to repeat it.

the helicopters are the answer i know they come at a cost but lives are priceless. they always track down the young nutters or more serious criminals so why can't the police drive within safe limits and then rendevouz when the offenders end their escape run?

again it is not the cops in cars who are to blame for killing inocent people it is the powers that be, again the pureists who allow them to do it.

the canteen rooms in the traffic cops set ups love boasting how quick their new impretsars are. i repeat it is not their fault but they do have a licence to kill under the current law.

i personally could not justify chasing jack the ripper if i had taken out a lovely 19 yr. old girl. the traffic cops job should be down graded to the local authority speed camera van men's level.

they reach the scene of an accident block the road without much urgency lean on their car door and then call for medics, the fire brigade, the brake down truck and a carry out if they have missed lunch and have people in the real police to make the visit to the family if a fatality is concerned.

compared to trawlermen, miners, firemen, paramedics. etc. the job is a cushy number and far overated in my opinion. when they stop you most of them have an air of unfounded superiority, keep calling you sir but are so condescending, when they get back to their hq. they are telling their mates and taking the p---s out of you.

this needs to change and i am sure it will. the tv programmes have done them no favours but i am also making use of personal and my friend's experiences. herbiemercman.

 

[Geoff W]

Hi Everyone.
I have just sat and read everyone of these posts with great interest, I accept everyones point of view, and i dont want to offend anyone with my views but i recently had a event with a traffic cop which has totally changed my view of the police, i know they are not all alike and i am trying to remember this.
I recently pulled up outside a job in my transit van, when a traffic cop pulled up infront of me, and stated that he had seen me without my seatbelt on.
He claimed he had observed me travelling towards him, and that i clearly had no belt on.
Please bear in mind that i had my belt on, my van has a black bulk head behind the drivers seat, i had my dark blue jacket on, and of coarse the seatbelt is black.
To cut a long story short he gave me the ticket, I was polite with him protesting my innocence, but he was arrogant, ignorant and offensive.
I have since complained to his seargent (waste of time) and now i am going to court to try and proove my innocence.
I today recieved this policemans statement, and he has lied about every single aspect ofthe situation, i believe this is because he fully expected me to just pay the £30.00 fine, now he has to justify his actions in court he is lying to cover his back.
On the other hand i have a community police officer helping me with a problem who cannot do enough to help me, he is a genuine good guy, so is this a case of the rotten apple or do i distrust cops for ever?
I have got my local MP involved with the bad cop, and i will have my day in court (whatever the outcome) but my general thinking is that we do need a good police force throughout our community.

Rant over- off for a beer!

 

[Alex M Grieve]

I have got my local MP involved with the bad cop, and i will have my day in court (whatever the outcome) but my general thinking is that we do need a good police force throughout our community. Rant over- off for a beer!

Sadly, we are no different in this country to many others, but we should be. I was driving along in the USA with a business chum. We saw another motorist being pulled over and got to chatting about police and enforcement.

He explained that in their county they had "the best police force money could buy"!

Second oldest profession?

 

[RiceBurner]

as i say there are police in my family, the real police. i have given my view on the traffic cops so no need to repeat it.

the helicopters are the answer i know they come at a cost but lives are priceless. they always track down the young nutters or more serious criminals so why can't the police drive within safe limits and then rendevouz when the offenders end their escape run?

again it is not the cops in cars who are to blame for killing inocent people it is the powers that be, again the pureists who allow them to do it.

the canteen rooms in the traffic cops set ups love boasting how quick their new impretsars are. i repeat it is not their fault but they do have a licence to kill under the current law.

i personally could not justify chasing jack the ripper if i had taken out a lovely 19 yr. old girl. the traffic cops job should be down graded to the local authority speed camera van men's level.

they reach the scene of an accident block the road without much urgency lean on their car door and then call for medics, the fire brigade, the brake down truck and a carry out if they have missed lunch and have people in the real police to make the visit to the family if a fatality is concerned.

compared to trawlermen, miners, firemen, paramedics. etc. the job is a cushy number and far overated in my opinion. when they stop you most of them have an air of unfounded superiority, keep calling you sir but are so condescending, when they get back to their hq. they are telling their mates and taking the p---s out of you.

this needs to change and i am sure it will. the tv programmes have done them no favours but i am also making use of personal and my friend's experiences. herbiemercman.

You've obviously never actually dealt with traffic officers from "their side". (as opposed to being on the receiving end).

As such your opinions are coloured by the "infighting" within the forces, which unfortunately happens - it's obvious that your police contacts are not traffic.

I HAVE worked directly with traffic (as a civilian accident invistigator) and it's not as "nice" a job as you make out.

 

[RiceBurner]

Hi Everyone.
I have just sat and read everyone of these posts with great interest, I accept everyones point of view, and i dont want to offend anyone with my views but i recently had a event with a traffic cop which has totally changed my view of the police, i know they are not all alike and i am trying to remember this.
I recently pulled up outside a job in my transit van, when a traffic cop pulled up infront of me, and stated that he had seen me without my seatbelt on.
He claimed he had observed me travelling towards him, and that i clearly had no belt on.
Please bear in mind that i had my belt on, my van has a black bulk head behind the drivers seat, i had my dark blue jacket on, and of coarse the seatbelt is black.
To cut a long story short he gave me the ticket, I was polite with him protesting my innocence, but he was arrogant, ignorant and offensive.
I have since complained to his seargent (waste of time) and now i am going to court to try and proove my innocence.
I today recieved this policemans statement, and he has lied about every single aspect ofthe situation, i believe this is because he fully expected me to just pay the £30.00 fine, now he has to justify his actions in court he is lying to cover his back.
On the other hand i have a community police officer helping me with a problem who cannot do enough to help me, he is a genuine good guy, so is this a case of the rotten apple or do i distrust cops for ever?
I have got my local MP involved with the bad cop, and i will have my day in court (whatever the outcome) but my general thinking is that we do need a good police force throughout our community.

Rant over- off for a beer!

Sounds like a bad apple to me - you get them in all walks of life.

 

[Andrew23]

This tread started off about the MOT test!

Somewhere there is mention of indicators having to be orange. I thought the law was white or orange at the front and orange or red at the rear?

On the subject of MOT's, I remember an old motor of mine failing the test because the light unit had faded in the sun and was too pale

 

[television]

This tread started off about the MOT test!

Somewhere there is mention of indicators having to be orange. I thought the law was white or orange at the front and orange or red at the rear?

On the subject of MOT's, I remember an old motor of mine failing the test because the light unit had faded in the sun and was too pale

Yes bulbs that have faded, or the lens are MOT failures

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi riceburner,i'm just giving the opinion that the fire brigade paramedics etc have the same or more pressure and do not spend a high percentage of their time cruising the motorways or sat waiting to chase somone.

some of my biker pals are traffic cops grand lads. they love their job. it is the powers that be that set the job specification degree of difficulty and responsibility levels i am critical of.

when the injured person is trapped in the wreckage it is the fire man and paramedic who have the heat on them not the traffic cop on the radio and controlling traffic.

yes the cop sees the gore but so do the general public who are involved or watching.

if i were given the choice of being a trawlerman, a miner, builder, paramedic or fireman and traffic cop, yes i would choose the traffic cop, i like fast cars and driving and delegating to all the services at my disposal. also most of the trades i mention here have no sick pay or pension or job security no equipment provided.

what experiences make you have a different view? best wishes. herbiemercman.

 

[RiceBurner]

hi riceburner,i'm just giving the opinion that the fire brigade paramedics etc have the same or more pressure and do not spend a high percentage of their time cruising the motorways or sat waiting to chase somone.

Don't disagree. But they do get to sit around in a cushy (well, relatively) office until called for. and ALL they have to do is the medical / fire rescue bits - they don't have to speak to the family, and do all the other jobs a police can be called to do. That's not to say btw that I have any less respect for them. They too do a ****ing awful job for not enough money.

some of my biker pals are traffic cops grand lads. they love their job.

Same here.

it is the powers that be that set the job specification degree of difficulty and responsibility levels i am critical of.

Utterly agree with you there. but it does make me question why you "have a go" at the officers on the job, then change your tune and start to blame the "higher ups". ???

when the injured person is trapped in the wreckage it is the fire man and paramedic who have the heat on them not the traffic cop on the radio and controlling traffic.

But it's the traffic cop who is almost invariably there first and must manage the scene/deal with witnesses/perform any immediately required first aid/ etc etc before any help arrives.

yes the cop sees the gore but so do the general public who are involved or watching.

Have you been there? Have you seen a man choking in his own blood? Seen the light fade from a young mans eyes and be powerless to help?

if i were given the choice of being a trawlerman, a miner, builder, paramedic or fireman and traffic cop, yes i would choose the traffic cop, i like fast cars and driving and delegating to all the services at my disposal. also most of the trades i mention here have no sick pay or pension or job security no equipment provided.

I wouldn't. I've seen what they have to go through.

what experiences make you have a different view? best wishes. herbiemercman.

Quite a few, most of which I have no wish whatsoever of repeating (from all positions, victim/perpetrator/witness/"cop" )

 

[RonH]

Hi,
recently had the fortune / misfortune to be stopped by armed police at a road check going into Stanstead Airport. The check got off to a humorous start as the officer read my lips as I said to my daughter "I bet they stop us ".... and as he signaled me to stop......... "Fxck It, told you so !."
There were two of them, the one that conducted the check, and his mate that stood back a few yards holding his firearm at the ready.
From the start we had a good laugh and he conducted the check courteously and quickly.............his first question being "had we a plane to catch.....won't keep you long".
He explained about the questions he had to ask and went over the procedure for making a complaint if I felt I had been treated badly.
His approach could only be described as friendly....so friendly infact, that when I told him he shouldn't stand so close to an open car window as I could have pulled his revolver out of its holster and done a "switch" on him, he replied " you'd be lucky, it take me ages to get that gun out,theres no way you are going to get it out that fast! "
Anyway, once the check had been completed, I asked the officer If he would welcome some advice.....he said "go on then".
I said "you old boys let yourselves down, I watch those programmes on the tv now where you have the rally cars, the million pound helicopters, all the latest gizmos and gadgets and there you are catching all those car thieves, drunks and scalliwags......does make good tele. Then right at the end the voice says.....the guy that stole, and trashed, someones car, got a £40 fine,.............the man with no tax, insurance and mot got community service, ............the illegal immigrant didn't turn up to court etc.".I said you would be better not putting the end on as it seems to be counter productive to all your efforts and leaves me, the viewer, cursing and muttering!.
He agreed, saying to the effect that HE sometimes wondered if it is all worth it when he saw the sentences being handed down by liberal judges and magistrates.

I think the phrase "pixxing in the wind " might have summed up his efforts!.


(sorry, nothing to do with mot's also ).


Ron H.

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi ron / riceburner, i agree fully ron with your comments on sentencing and the tv not giving much applause to the traffic cops. more and more today the penalties are means tested, basically if you have nowt you pay nowt. the driving licence points system is there to stop the wealthy car drivers speeding all the time by just paying the fines.

hi riceburner, i am not having a go at the traffic cops as i have said in all my posts it's the powers that be i am critical of.

i also accept that the tv has done the job they do no favours.

i also accept your point about "the hands on" situation at the scene of a fatal it would make many people less objective if they were carrying out a job specification remotely. best wishes. herbiemercman.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

Going back to the point about the MOT. I agree with Herbie's complaints. The MOT used to be a very sensible, quick, and cheap assessment of some of the safety aspects of a car.

It is changing in character, and via various kinds of mission creep, if we don't watch out, we'll end up with a test that's more like a Japanese Shaken, where the test is so thorough and time consuming, it costs so much money that good cars are effectively rendered scrap by it.

Despite the good sense of the MOT of old, it was an incredibly poor way of reducing accidents. I know that that idea will sit badly with many, but, please have a read of this research document from the Netherlands;

http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/UK/FS_MOT.pdf

For those who aren't keen on reading the entire document, I paste a snippet below;

----------------8<---------------

This is indeed a varied picture. SWOV sees no reason to revise its conclusion of 1985. This was that the safety effect of the MOT was not to be estimated as being large, but rather 'too small to measure' (Tromp, 1985). It had already then been determined that the contribution of technical defects to crashes occurring was limited, 2 to 6%. The MOT could only prevent a few of these happening: there are also defects, whether or not of inspected parts, that occur in between two MOTs. SWOV did not further specify these 'few' in terms of a percentage, but would now estimate this at 20-30%. So, 20-30% of 2 to 6% of all accidents could be prevented by the MOT, which amounts to less than 1% of all accidents on average.

----------------8<---------------

My other gripe with the MOT is that it is mis-interpreted by most as a rigorous and thorough safety check, when really it is intended as a quality check on your vehicle's servicing. If your car failed the MOT of old, it meant that you as an owner, or your garage as servicer of the car had missed something, and that the car's maintenace really needed to be stepped up a bit, or the car scrapped.

It is only in servicing and maintenance where the thorough check of a car's condition can be made. An MOT tester can remove *nothing* no covers, no trims, nothing. Under a plastic wheel trim, there might only be one wheel bolt left in place, and the car would, correctly pass the MOT while being absolutely lethal.

The MOT mission creep is partly political, and partly job justification by the MOT team within VOSA. As the NL data show, the MOT doesn't really work in the way that many think it does, and it represents an increasing cost and burden to motorists.

I would like to see the clock wound back on the MOT so that it was carried out like during the 1980's - a sensible, quick, cheap check. In addition, I would like to see owners of vehicle's which routinely or serially failed MOTs to be scrutinised by VOSA in the same way as already happens for HGVs and PSVs.

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi numbercruncher, after reading the comments from riceburner, you are like a breath of fresh air. you are objective and prepared to back up your opinions. this is a good thread, not just because it makes the point for my instigation posting on this subject, but because you are objective. herbiemercman.

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi, numbercruncher, it's great to see comments which are objective. you have improved with statistical evidence that what my original instigational posting was trying to say.

i will be suprised if people like riceburner don't find fault with your information, un-objectively as usual. some people who lack objectivity refer to it as ranting on.

may be this makes the site that more stimulating. herbiemercman.

 

[RiceBurner]

hi, numbercruncher, it's great to see comments which are objective. you have improved with statistical evidence that what my original instigational posting was trying to say.

i will be suprised if people like riceburner don't find fault with your information, un-objectively as usual. some people who lack objectivity refer to it as ranting on.

may be this makes the site that more stimulating. herbiemercman.

As it happens I fully agree with numbercruncher too.

Making comments directly aimed at me, and my subjectiveness regarding my experiences and opinions formed thereon says more about yourself than I would ever need or want to.

Shame really as we seem to agree on a lot of things, just have different ways of expressing ourselves.

Room on the internet for all kinds though.

As regards MOTs, I'm glad they exist even if, like everything in this world, they're not perfect.