What is the benifit of using an Independent garage?

[jamesryan.snr]

Mike, I will point out to jon that he forgets to mention my fuel level!! I know I'm out numbered but you have seriously missed my point! It is not about the cash it's about value. By all means continue to listen to your mate mr independent who let's you use his ramp when you want to play mecanic fir the day! Does he let you borrow dirty overalls to make you look althentic? How about service a few of his customers cars? I'm sure if you tell them you have 20 years mb experiance and there car is perfect and does not need any work done, you will gain lots of friends and customers!!

 

[muller1]

Mike, I will point out to jon that he forgets to mention my fuel level!! I know I'm out numbered but you have seriously missed my point! It is not about the cash it's about value. By all means continue to listen to your mate mr independent who let's you use his ramp when you want to play mecanic fir the day! Does he let you borrow dirty overalls to make you look althentic? How about service a few of his customers cars? I'm sure if you tell them you have 20 years mb experiance and there car is perfect and does not need any work done, you will gain lots of friends and customers!!

I do not need to do that.
I had my own marine engineering business in Aberdeen and employed 45 engineers and welders and worked on some pretty big Main engines like Sultzer, M.A.K, Deutz etc.
I built and raced my own cars, and raced at Croft. Mallory. Silverstone etc I built and rallied three or four cars so I know a little about engines and know when I am being taken for a ride.
I do not need to "play" at being a mechanic for a day because I am a time serviced engineer.
As far as dirty overall I have plenty of my own and do not need to borrow dirty ones.
I have forgotten more about engineering than a lot of TRAINED "mechaincs"
know and have a set of tools that most people only dream about AND I KNOW HOW TO USE THEM.
Yes you are right I have sometimes helped Jim at the garage when he has been stuck and done some service work along with him to help him get finished a job.
I still work part time as a maintainance engineer so as to keep myself busy and still in touch with the tools.
I would say that my 51 years of engineering, machining, welding , design and fitting etc counts for more that 20 years as a grease monkey which most of the mechanics are nowadays.
They fix nothing they only keep throwing on new parts till something starts to work again and you the customer pays.
For example MB do not service fuel injectors because they cannot, they do not repair faulty starters because they cannot, without a full store they are lost when it comes to REPAIRS the cannot repair anything anymore they just fit a new part and again you the customer pays and how.

If you think you are getting value being charged over £100 per hour, to drain and refill oil, change brake pads etc, then I am happy for you, but I am afraid I do not think this is value.

I think I will stick to my local garage, not because le lets me PLAY WITH HIM, but because he give me great value, and good work.

Mike

 

[rf065]

I know I'm out numbered but you have seriously missed my point! It is not about the cash it's about value.

You really have been taken in by your dealer. If value is what counts, then your MB dealer is the last place you should go.

When he tells you that your brakes are 50% worn, they are probably only 20% worn. When he tells you what is involved in a service, he doesn't tell you that for most of the newer cars through the workshop, a £500 B service is little more than an expensive oil change with a few checks thrown in. If the car is a lot older, then the £500 is likely to become at least £1600 or even more.

Does he tell you that the Mobil 1 they put in your engine for £15 to £17 a litre can be bought in Costco for £23 for 4 litres? Value for money is the last term I would use in my experience of MB servicing. Don't mistake the Mercedes showrooms & fancy treatment as a sign that they do not tell the same old lies that lesser garages are renowned for, it's in their DNA.

Russ

 

[redlaser]

Some (not all) Indies will let u supply the parts and only charge for labour...the Dealers charge highly inflated prices for the same part plus the labour difference means a couple of hundred $'s (pounds) at the end...plus some dealers don't know the early model MB's as well the local Indie who will also advise on parts likely to need replacing...the Dealer usually only does what u ask...some dealers want the history of the car before they even see it..an Indie will usually do the job the same day..."nuff said..
Peter

 

[truthfindergeneral]

For years I trod down the path of a full service history being the key to a good trade in price next time around. Then the penny dropped. Once the car reached a certain age or mileage, that was that. No amount of receipts and smudged stamps will gain you anything more than you'd get not having them.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Why does he not tell you that your fuel tank is 50% full and your tyres have only 50% tread left, this is not a duty of care issue, as if something needs changing, just change it, do not tell me.
All this is in the hope that you will say Oh my god thanks for telling me, only 50% of my discs and pads left just change them.
50% should be about 20 to 30 thousand miles left in them at worst and I am sure your insurance would not insist on them being changed at 50% so no worries there.
As I said before if you have enough money not to have to consider the servicing / repair cost just get a new car at every service and you have it covered 100% all of the time.

Cost conscious Mike

Salutary. I have had 2 services and 3,000 miles since my first advisory on brake pads for the S Class. MB Cheltenham and Gloucester told me 2 weeks ago (free efficiency check) that there is 20% left on the front pads, tons on the rear pads, and the discs are fine.

I expect to renew the front pads at a B service at 50,000 miles, 21,000 miles after the first advisory.

 

[television]

Salutary. I have had 2 services and 3,000 miles since my first advisory on brake pads for the S Class. MB Cheltenham and Gloucester told me 2 weeks ago (free efficiency check) that there is 20% left on the front pads, tons on the rear pads, and the discs are fine.

I expect to renew the front pads at a B service at 50,000 miles, 21,000 miles after the first advisory.

You are getting mean Alex,,you could have let MB fitted 2 complete sets of pads and disc,, it does not matter that you did not need them, you have deprived MB out of all that money

 

[Alex M Grieve]

You are getting mean Alex,,you could have let MB fitted 2 complete sets of pads and disc,, it does not matter that you did not need them, you have deprived MB out of all that money

And Alastair D of quite a lot of VAT too.

Now I feel quite badly about this - I feel a decline coming on .............. :Oops:

 

[Rory]

Hi rory,
I understand your stance towsrds your main dealer based on your first point. And can understand your frustrations. I think however ive missed your second point: I know they are not the same but from a mecanical point of view shouldn't they be? Please don't mistake me as a fan of main dealers but feel the point needs to be made that whoever works on my car should do the service or repair in accordance with mb standards, be upto date trained, use genuine parts, and give peace of mind. I come from the airline industry where I managed a budget airline group and we advertised a 'cheap' price but made customers que for hours, have delays, cancel flights, charge for hand luggage, charge for every possible extra. And the bottom line was the customer paid the same or more than using ba or virgin. Bottom line us not headline cost it's final cost. Are some independents a false economy?

You're certainly doing a good impression of someone who is a fan of main dealers!

I don't think there's any shame in that. I use a main dealer although my car is on Mercedes ServicePlus so I don't have a choice. However there isn't a well regarded specialist within reasonable travelling distance.

I'm also someone who prefers large organisations, if only because it's easier to complain, and I've had several occasions to complain to MB, none of which have been resolved. It's true that you need to find a specialist with whom you feel comfortable as you'll likely be dealing face to face with him. It's a bit like dealing with the Dealer Principal at your Mercedes dealer every time you visit - you don't want to be getting into arguments with him.

I think the "MB Standards, factory trained" etc is red herring. There's probably one good technician in every workshop, a bunch of ordinary mechanics and some apprentices. Most routine work is done by apprentices. Turnover of staff is high, although I would imagine will have slowed recently.

The other thing is that, at least for dealerships outside London, MB has put a lot of pressure on dealerships to reduce prices. Routine A & B services were always a pretty standard £250 / £450. Now if you call and ask, many dealers will do them for £199/£299. That's a chunky difference and the gap generally between indies and MB dealers isn't as wide as it once was.

The harsh reality is that wherever your car gets serviced there a huge amount of trust. In your airline business getting boxes ticked and signed off (backside covering) is probably a key issue. If you feel the same about car servicing then the backside covering option is to entrust it to a dealer and then if your brakes do fail you can point to the MB dealer stamp and just shrug.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

In your airline business getting boxes ticked and signed off (backside covering) is probably a key issue.

Be careful what you wish for Rory!

The ultimate weapon in the airline industry (and they need no other) is that, once the customer has ticked the box "I have read and accept the terms and conditions", then he is dead meat.

We would not want MB or any car company to resort to any such carte blanche disclaimer now, would we?

 

[rf065]

Routine A & B services were always a pretty standard £250 / £450. Now if you call and ask, many dealers will do them for £199/£299.

You could have a whole different argument on that one. When the £199 service advertised by Mercedes does not include filters and other mileage related work, and you discover on the day that £199 can quickly add up to £500 or £600.

The cynical amongst us will see that as advertising a low price to entice you into the workshop, then recoup your money on all the things that are not included. We expect better from Mercedes, whoever heard of a £199 service that does not include an air filter!

Russ

 

[Rory]

You could have a whole different argument on that one. When the £199 service advertised by Mercedes does not include filters and other mileage related work, and you discover on the day that £199 can quickly add up to £500 or £600.

The cynical amongst us will see that as advertising a low price to entice you into the workshop, then recoup your money on all the things that are not included. We expect better from Mercedes, whoever heard of a £199 service that does not include an air filter!

Russ

I do agree, but the harsh reality is that this matrix method of service planning is typical of all the "prestige" brands. I don't know what the air filter change frequency is, but if it only needs changing every 4yrs/48K miles, why change it more often?

Some makes go the other way - the service schedule on my daughter's Mitsubishi Colt demands a new pollen filter every 12mths and the 2 year service includes changing all the usual service items plus rear brake strip and clean and brake fluid change. So you end up with a cheap car which has routine servicing costs on a par with a Mercedes.

The old MB dealer price of £450 or so for a B service (a glorified oil change and a new pollen filter) was completely ridiculous. What's stuffed the prices for many private owners is the switch to annual servicing on newer cars. My car will go 2 years between services.

 

[msharif911]

I do most servicing myself. Anyone can change spark plugs and airfilters etc. Oil change is a bit more messy but I take it to a garage for that. Get your parts from German Swedish and French for a song usually. Anything more major I take it to an independant dealer.

The disadvantage is my 1999 S-Class has developed rust and despite a 30 year anti corrosion waranty MB wont repair it as they havent seen any money from me for years. £3500 for them to fix the rust or £800 for a local bodyshop to do it.

Personally I might just let it rust away and then park it outside the dealership with a sign saying "30 year anti corrosion warranty - What warranty?"

 

[jamesryan.snr]

I do most servicing myself. Anyone can change spark plugs and airfilters etc. Oil change is a bit more messy but I take it to a garage for that. Get your parts from German Swedish and French for a song usually. Anything more major I take it to an independant dealer.

The disadvantage is my 1999 S-Class has developed rust and despite a 30 year anti corrosion waranty MB wont repair it as they havent seen any money from me for years. £3500 for them to fix the rust or £800 for a local bodyshop to do it.

Personally I might just let it rust away and then park it outside the dealership with a sign saying "30 year anti corrosion warranty - What warranty?"

So just so I'm clear you service your own car, you use pattern parts, but visit your local dealer when you want them to sort out a rust problem on your 10 year old S-Class? and if they dont sort it out you are going to park the rust bucket outside the dealer. Can I ask why you feel it is the dealers fault as I would understand if you were going to park it outside the mercedes head office or factory? but why blame the dealer? not the manufacture? and I believe the carrosion warranty you are hoping for is actualy anti perferation from corrosion from the indide out.

 

[jamesryan.snr]

You really have been taken in by your dealer. If value is what counts, then your MB dealer is the last place you should go.

When he tells you that your brakes are 50% worn, they are probably only 20% worn. When he tells you what is involved in a service, he doesn't tell you that for most of the newer cars through the workshop, a £500 B service is little more than an expensive oil change with a few checks thrown in. If the car is a lot older, then the £500 is likely to become at least £1600 or even more.

Does he tell you that the Mobil 1 they put in your engine for £15 to £17 a litre can be bought in Costco for £23 for 4 litres? Value for money is the last term I would use in my experience of MB servicing. Don't mistake the Mercedes showrooms & fancy treatment as a sign that they do not tell the same old lies that lesser garages are renowned for, it's in their DNA.

Russ

Russ, Good point regarding the Oil and Mercedes have told me that due to BER european law I can supply my own oil.

 

[rf065]

Russ, Good point regarding the Oil and Mercedes have told me that due to BER european law I can supply my own oil.

That is what I did, Mobil 1, £23 for 4 litres from Costco.
And although that is cheap for the UK, Walmart in the US sell 4.73 litres for $22, approx £15 including sales tax!

Russ

 

[teabag]

So just so I'm clear you service your own car, you use pattern parts, but visit your local dealer when you want them to sort out a rust problem on your 10 year old S-Class? and if they dont sort it out you are going to park the rust bucket outside the dealer. Can I ask why you feel it is the dealers fault as I would understand if you were going to park it outside the mercedes head office or factory? but why blame the dealer? not the manufacture? and I believe the carrosion warranty you are hoping for is actualy anti perferation from corrosion from the indide out.

Is the SNR in your name a shortened version of "SYTNER" by any chance

 

[television]

Is the SNR in your name a shortened version of "SYTNER" by any chance

He has so much money I was thinking Ryan Air

 

[jamesryan.snr]

No. It senior! But I stand by the fact that mb dealers are more accountable than independents, also when indi's can't fix a car they always go back to the dealer, and in most cases don't tell the customer.

 

[jamesryan.snr]

I am a major share holder at Ryan air!! I feel my point is starting to frustrate? I still don't understand how using a main dealer is so bad, so what that they tell you how worn items are on your car, because you choose they can't force you. And the fact you can supply your own oil plus they are now much more competitive, why don't we use them? And if you have a 1999 car with corrosion they may help you out!!