What Tyre Pressures

[kevinororke]

Which Tyres

Hallo,

I'm about to replace all 4 tyres on my X reg C Class diesel estate. Tyres being critcal safety elements I don't want to compromise or economise. Also, I would prioritise basic grip, especially in the wet, over wear resistance, handling characteristics and noise. I've got Pirelli P6000s on just now which are suppose to be very hardwearing. Should I stick with these ? Michelin Pilot Premacy have also been suggested.

Regards, Kevin

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

I have always worked on the principle that the manufacturer knows best. I try to replace tyres with what were fitted when the car/van came from the factory with originally. This is not always possible due to production changes but the tyre supplier will usually tell you what a tyre brand has replaced a particular line with.

 

[Blobcat]

I have always worked on the principle that the manufacturer knows best. I try to replace tyres with what were fitted when the car/van came from the factory with originally. This is not always possible due to production changes but the tyre supplier will usually tell you what a tyre brand has replaced a particular line with.

I don't go along with this, as the tyre manufactures compete like mad to be original fitment. They do this as they know that most buyers just put the same tyres on when it comes time to replace them.
There is a thread going http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=18341 on tyres. Most recommendations can be subjective rather than objective.What works for me and the car and way I drive may not suit anybody else. Auto Express have done tyre tests which may be of use, from those tests the premium brands appear to be only that. A premium for the brand and no better performance.

 

[Wezzel]

I have just put 4 Vredestein HiTrac's on my C Class diesel estate. I chose them because they came top in last years Autoexpress test.

I have only covered about 800 miles on them so far but I am very pleased with them. They handle at least as well as Pirellis and are much quieter.

A very good price of about £50 each for 205 55 x 16 from my local tyre shop.

Available at a good price from www.mytyres.co.uk

 

[kevinororke]

I agree with Sprint'n,Go that you probably won't go wrong with original equipment tyres. The downside is that you won't get them at the same price as Mercedes paid for them. So Blobcat is right there. Think I'll take e look at the Vredstsein's as suggested by Wezzel. Any more ??

Kevin

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

I don't go along with this, as the tyre manufactures compete like mad to be original fitment. They do this as they know that most buyers just put the same tyres on when it comes time to replace them

You are probably right, but I had always hoped that the manufacturers did extensive comparative tests to establish which tyre gave the safest, most predictable handling and decent wear rates together with reasonable ride comfort........

OK, perhaps I am a stark raving loony optimist :lol:

 

[Bolide]

I find the Pirellis very noisy, at least on W124s. Michelins tend to be hard, and so less grippy, so I'd recommend one of the premium makes like Continental, Bridgestone, Goodyear, etc. Auto Express & Autocar have both done tyre tests that may be useful

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[davidsl500]

Its a very subjective issue. The problem is that when you replace tyres that are low on tread then any mediocre new tyre is probably going to give you the impression that its better - especially in the wet when you have 8mm of new tread to carry the water away against the 2 or 3mm you may have now.

The tyre tests are fine as far as they go but, for example, in the autoexpress test they only tested 20 tyres out of probably 60-70 available specs. There were no Pilot PS2's, Eagle F1's etc., , The other thing on the tests is how relevant is testing tyres on relatively light weight small Front Wheel Drive cars compared with the intended use on heavy, Rear Wheel Drive vehicles?

It is also important that if you go for a "tyre test champion" then you must get the EXACT model they tested and not just something from the same manufacturer.

For my contribution The Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 is my tyre of choice - good in the dry and especially so in the wet and a reasonable price for a premium brand as well - plus a great looking tread pattern!

 

[SLinKyjoe]

I will add my bit

I have 2 cars.

the Merc has continetal sport contact 2's on it. in anything other than warm and bone dry, they are useless. Now bear with me as these tyres have impressed me as well.

I the wet on cold dales country lanes, i have had the back end of the car start to come round, and this is at slow speeds, and i am not suggesting i was making progress either. had i been i may have expected it, but at the speed i was going it came as an unusal shock. Under reasonable acceleartion they give no grip and the traction/esp devices go mad.

However, on the supercar tour, it was very hot, and the tryes were warm and the gave almost unbelieveable levels of grip. in the car park, they had a full coating of stone all round the tyre circumference. this is what impressed me. I have never seen a road tyre do they before.

What it means is that this tyre is a pure performance tyre, so unless you get heat into it they lose grip. on mytres they are £169 each. michelins are about £15 dearer for the same size, but Hankook's are £106. looking at the test rating on mytyres for these tyres, i will get Hankooks when these wear out, as they offer better grip in wet, longer mileage, quieter road noise and are cheaper. they have comparable dry weather grip. on a track maybe they wont be as good.

Now the other car had ultra budget tyres on, that mytyres did for £26. they were rubbish at all times. they had no grip in the wet, the sidewalls were rubbish and it car rolled about on them, they didnt last mileage wise either. Khuni or something they were.

Got Hankook tyres for this, as i was recommended them by a mate. these tyres were £33 each. they are quieter, stiffer so they dont roll, and they grip in the wet. they seems to have better mileage too but i have only had them on 6months and it has only done 4000 or so and its a bit early to say. it isnt a performance car.

I found that Hankook have a deal with Michelin for tyres that are made for asia. as a result, they are allowed to bring in some tyre sizes here and compete in the budget end of the market, but these tyres are michelin designed and use michelin know how. it also appears that some of the michelin budget tyres are actually made by Hankook, branded as michelin. if you check out the ratings between hankook and michelin, size for size, you will see the similairtys.

I have had pirellis before and found that they didnt last the distance, grip okay, just bad mileage. Goodyear have been okay but again i didnt find they last that well. and i generally went for michelin. I find they are a bit too dear now.

That said, i bought Semperits for my brothers landrover, and they are still on it, it has done 23,000 and they have around 4mm of tread still on them. they were £63 each.

so let us know what you choose. it will help for those who read the thread later.

 

[Rory]

If you want lifetime, and you're thinking of Michelin Primacy's, then get the new HP version. Same price as non-HP, but alledgedly 25% more life (in a tyre that should have good life anyway).

Just put 2 on the rear of my C Class Estate - it's really a motorway cruiser so I'm not tsting the mimits of grip etc. They are *loads* quieter and more comfortable than the Bridgestone Turanza ER30's that were on before.

If you got for Michelin, Costco is about the cheapest if you have membership there.

 

[Blobcat]

For my contribution The Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 is my tyre of choice - good in the dry and especially so in the wet and a reasonable price for a premium brand as well - plus a great looking tread pattern!

Do you park with the wheels on full lock, just so you can see the tread ?

I actually find bike tyres much easier to choose. The magazines tend to conduct tests regularly and the manufactures web sites have some good tyre selectors built in. Plus you tend to change bike tyres much more often so if you have a bad one it isn't for very long.

 

[jberks]

I've said this on the other thread, but
1) Original fitment was decided by an accountant - not an engineer so ignore that one. Amusingly, I used to fit OEM for the same reasons above. As a result, on my C class, I insisted on pricey P600s as that's what she was on when I bought her from the dealer. I then realised that the spare was a Dunlop. Who knows what the factory fitted originally.
Mine has factory Bridgestones on the front and dealer contis on the back - its all baloney!

2) All 'big brands' offer poor value. Michelin is by far the worst for this IMO. In the Auto Express tyre test, they came last. This was due to their performance being average despite being by far the most expensive.

I have been comparing reviews of different makes as I can spend from £61.40 to £162.80 for a single tyre on my motor. So far, in my list I have - in review order

Tyre Cost for 4
Toyo PROXES T1-R 441.20
Bridgestone Potenza RE 050 447.60
Bridgestone Potenza RE 050 RFT 651.20
Maxxis MA V1 316.00
Kumho ECSTA SPT KU31 322.40
Hankook VENTUS SPORT K104 285.20
Nexen N 3000 245.60
Nankang NS-1 247.20
Michelin Pilot PRIMACY 566.80
Dunlop SP SPORT 01 485.60
Falken-Ohtsu FK-451 276.00

so I'll have either Toyos or Maxxis currently - depending on how flush I'm feeling.
The problem is that unless you buy real cheap cr-p, all tyres will be pretty similar and whilst you may criticise the noise level on one make, another person will praise the wet grip, probably for the same reason. Horses for courses.

I'm trying to employ the same rule I use when buying computer components. Model prices increase steadily to a point, then jump dramatically for the premium models. Normally buy either at (under) the break point or the one just below. Anything above is a very poor value.

 

[big x]

In fact there are 3 different tyre tests...Golf size car front wheel drive class,medium size C-class and ultra performance.
Autoexpress don't actually test anything they republish the German magzine
Auto Bild which is part of the same group.
The overall results 2006 Golf 195/65 HR 15 summer tyres test;

1)Hankook ventus prime k105
2)Continental premium contact II
3)Nokian NRHi
4)Pirelli P6
5)Toyo proxes CF1
6)Bridgestone turanza ER300
7)Goodyear hyragrip
8}Dunlop SP sport 01
9)Fulda carat progresso
10)Vredestein Hi trac
11)Kleber HP2
12)Kumho KH11
13)Goodyear eagle vector EV-2
14)Wanli s-1093

Of note:
The Continental won the the dry handling section.
The Hancook the interior noise section ,wet weather braking and wet handling.
Both are excellent tyres.
The budget names designed by the well known makers but made in their East European plants or china/Korea do seem to have come of age.Last year a different Hankook came bottom from last.Barum is Continentals budget brand and Uniroyal their mid-price brand.(not in this years test).
Final advice..ignore anything you read on American websites,their tyres are completely different to european spec and ignore any sites using consumer subjective ratings.The only way to compare tyres is on the same car,at the same time on a tyre testing ground with measurement instrumentation.

adam

 

[Rory]

The budget names designed by the well known makers but made in their East European plants or china/Korea do seem to have come of age.Last year a different Hankook came bottom from last.Barum is Continentals budget brand and Uniroyal their mid-price brand.(not in this years test).

This bit "a different Hankook came bottom" is critical. Many (most?) people talk about makes of tyres, but the model is crucial - different models from the same manufacturer vary dramatically.

The other thing (sorry if this is bleedin obvious) is to match the tyre to your typical type of use. I really only use my MB for long motorway journeys, so I wanted long life, quietness and comfort. I chose Michelin Primacy HP's.
Don't know what size jberks is looking at, but mine (225/50R16) were under £100 all in.

 

[jberks]

This bit "a different Hankook came bottom" is critical. Many (most?) people talk about makes of tyres, but the model is crucial - different models from the same manufacturer vary dramatically.
.

Absolutely - an often missed point. I've been ignoring who/what and looking at price and review only. It's just that the make is often a surprise when you do this. You'd expect the big names to float to the top, but they often don't.

The point about use is also critical but it's almost impossible to get a view use. I'm using the noise/comfort/wear aspect for this as most of my running is motorway, so the grip on anything should be ok. This is why I am still considerning the Toyos and bridgestones (ah - a big name - and what the factory fitted - hell I'm losing my own argument!) against the Maxxis. The Maxxis compete well on the grip stakes but fall a bit behind on noise and comfort.
It's one of those things that the more you know, the more confused you become!

Don't know what size jberks is looking at, but mine (225/50R16) were under £100 all in.

245/45R17 - look good, handle well, just a bit of a pain at replacement time!

 

[Myros]

well fellas

I'm on the 2nd set of Barum Bravuris( 205/55 16 91w) and I'm over the moon with them.
Nice ride, grippier than the Pilot Primacys they replaced ( now doing service on the TE, 5mm tread left, so far from goosed), quiet as well. They perform fine in the wet, from my SL recollections, although it hasn't rained on my parade with them on the C so far.
They seemed to test really well in the auto-express test last year, and my mechie stocks them, so i plumped for them rather than faff about having Toyos delivered etc.
The reality is that we would have to do back to back 'blind' tests on a piece of road we knew well to point up the differences between the tyres, and the chances of us being able to do that are slim. We'll just have to be subjective and hope the manufacturers have done a good job.

 

[Rory]

The point about use is also critical but it's almost impossible to get a view use. I'm using the noise/comfort/wear aspect for this as most of my running is motorway, so the grip on anything should be ok. This is why I am still considerning the Toyos and bridgestones (ah - a big name - and what the factory fitted - hell I'm losing my own argument!) against the Maxxis. The Maxxis compete well on the grip stakes but fall a bit behind on noise and comfort.

I replaced Bridgestone Turanza ER30's (which I think have been superceeded now) with the Michelin's.
Again, you have to watch the model, but Bridgestones generally are noted for stiff sidewalls. Even with 55's on the front and 50's on the rear, my car felt like the tyres where simply iron bands (I kept the pressures on the minumum setting too). This is fine if you want steering precision, but it made the car very harsh.

 

[kevinororke]

Hi all. Well I started this thread and on the basis of all your advice and experience and a bit of surfing I have plumped for a different tyre every time I log on !! However, here's the basis of a decision (probably final)

I'm a low mileage, steady as she goes driver. Nothing extreme. So, I don't need a tyre that can deal with high mileage or extreme speeds and cornering forces. I do sometimes drive on roughish tracks. My tyres very occasionally get damaged and need to be replaced. All my research leads me to believe that the most important thing for average driving is to have a competent, undamaged tyre with as much tread depth as possible.

So what I'm going to do is buy very affordable, but well rated, Barum Bavaris and change them as soon as the tread depth reaches 3 - 4 mm or if they show any damage. Sensible compromise or failure to understand the issues ??

Kevin

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

Hi all. Well I started this thread and on the basis of all your advice and experience and a bit of surfing I have plumped for a different tyre every time I log on !! However, here's the basis of a decision (probably final)

I'm a low mileage, steady as she goes driver. Nothing extreme. So, I don't need a tyre that can deal with high mileage or extreme speeds and cornering forces. I do sometimes drive on roughish tracks. My tyres very occasionally get damaged and need to be replaced. All my research leads me to believe that the most important thing for average driving is to have a competent, undamaged tyre with as much tread depth as possible.

So what I'm going to do is buy very affordable, but well rated, Barum Bavaris and change them as soon as the tread depth reaches 3 - 4 mm or if they show any damage. Sensible compromise or failure to understand the issues ??

Kevin

Sounds spot on to me. A tyre can easily become scrap with 2 punctures close together or with impact damage from pot holes or kerbing etc. It will always be psycologicaly easier to bin a £40-50 tyre than one costing £120 or more and if you dont wear through tyres at a fast rate then their cost is dwarfed by other running expenses so the difference between a tyre that may do 30k against one that only does 15k is less significant.

 

[jberks]

Well,
I thought I'd take my time and choose the best price/performance compromise and pick up a set at the end of the summer. Looked at my rears last night and the bit of tread I had left a couple of weeks ago has vanished. They are now as bald as me! (down to the bars anyway) Bugger - the fronts have around 1mm left so I guess they are going too.

As far as what to buy, reviews are so subjective, and in any case differ by model etc. Sure tyre x may last forever according to Mr Smith, but he has a focus and sits at 55. How will it cope with the torque on the back of my E? Or hauling the weight of an E down from 90 on the motorway day in day out. - no one really knows I guess.

I could get ones that appear to last, but the ride and noise could be awful.

So, I'm going to call the discount fitting station near the office. Ask for 2-3 options. Do a quick read, be no wiser and probably buy the middle one!

What the hell, if the wear rate of my current conti sport contact 2's is anything to go on (15.5k 75% motorway and new last November), I'll be changing them again by Christmas anyway!