Why don't my new wheels fit???

[JonFB]

Hi folks.

So havin taken the plunge and bought some MB 17" alloys from here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....MEWN:IT&viewitem=&item=280102019658&rd=1&rd=1

and then having put standard Continenetal tyres on from here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....MEWN:IT&viewitem=&item=120107919576&rd=1&rd=1

Why does my local independent garage now tell me they don't fit? Apparently they rub against the suspension arms.

Any ideas - as at the mo I have an unuseable car and £600 quid of useless wheels!!!

Are all four of the alloys exactly the same size (I have a w203 estate) - maybe they have put the wrong ones up front??? (have just phoned them again and they are saying there is a "rim" (or a kind of ledge) on the tyre and that is actually what is rubbing....) There are a helpful old style garage and had great difficulty getting the tyres onto the alloys as their machine is quite old - they ended up having to drive 10 miles and get ATS to help them out...so I'm just not sure what the problem is...

Any help I can give the garage in the morning would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,



Jon

 

[television]

Jon,what was the off set on your old wheels, thats the ET number inside on the spokes

 

[television]

The wheels in the Ebay link are standard 230 SL wheels with ET of 35

 

[JonFB]

Hi Malcolm, thanks for your help. The car and both sets of wheels are at the garage, so am unable to check...

If it helps it is a C200K 2002 w203 estate chassis number: WDB2032452 F264184.

The alloy people told me I needed to buy tyres that were "225 45 r17". Being an idiot that's what I did. He knew they were for the estate as I had allegidly selected ones for the saloon and he directed me to a different set on their own website (not the eBay one) and said that that set would be right. (Something to do with the saloon and estate have some difference).

I'm afraid I am clueless about all of this - I know I can research what the numbers mean but I am blithely stumbling in the dark and thought I had done as instructed.

I really am very grateful for your thoughts - hopefully I can then tell the garage what to do in the morning...

Thank you again.



Jon

 

[television]

Hi Malcolm, thanks for your help. The car and both sets of wheels are at the garage, so am unable to check...

If it helps it is a C200K 2002 w203 estate chassis number: WDB2032452 F264184.

The alloy people told me I needed to buy tyres that were "225 45 r17". Being an idiot that's what I did. He knew they were for the estate as I had allegidly selected ones for the saloon and he directed me to a different set on their own website (not the eBay one) and said that that set would be right. (Something to do with the saloon and estate have some difference).

I'm afraid I am clueless about all of this - I know I can research what the numbers mean but I am blithely stumbling in the dark and thought I had done as instructed.

I really am very grateful for your thoughts - hopefully I can then tell the garage what to do in the morning...

Thank you again.



Jon

Hi Jon the ET on your car is between 31 and 37, the wheels in the Ebay sale were 35 so should have been OK without knowing what the ET is of the wheels that you have it is impossible to comment further, if they have an ET of 41 then they will rub without spacers. Post it up as soon as you know

 

[Chris Murray]

Hi Jon
I'll first clarify a few things and then we'll solve your problem.

Hi Malcolm, thanks for your help. The car and both sets of wheels are at the garage, so am unable to check...

If it helps it is a C200K 2002 w203 estate chassis number: WDB2032452 F264184.

The alloy people told me I needed to buy tyres that were "225 45 r17". Being an idiot that's what I did.

225/45R17 is correct for the S203 with 17" wheels that are the same width all round. You could also fit 245/40R17 rear tyres, but this would them deny you the option of rotating the tyres front to rear to even out the differing wear rates.

He knew they were for the estate as I had allegidly selected ones for the saloon and he directed me to a different set on their own website (not the eBay one) and said that that set would be right. (Something to do with the saloon and estate have some difference).

You had selected wheels pre-fitted with 255/45R17 tyres which are only suitable for the 230/129/219 and at a push the 211 (current SL/previous SL, CLS and the curent E Class variants). It is not a saloon/estate issue but one of car models.
This wheelset is here:
http://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/me..._r230_alloys/17_mercedes_homan_wheel_tyres_80
They would definitely not work on your S203 with the 255/45R17 tyres

I'm afraid I am clueless about all of this - I know I can research what the numbers mean but I am blithely stumbling in the dark and thought I had done as instructed. I really am very grateful for your thoughts - hopefully I can then tell the garage what to do in the morning...

Thank you again.
Jon

The tyres you bought are Continental Sport Contact 2 225/45R17 with 6mm tread. Good choice. These are asymmetric tyres that are marked "inside" and "outside" and should be mounted to the rims in accordance with these instructions. The rim protection is a thick rim of rubber on the tyre next to where it mounts the rim. Please check that all 4 tyres have been mounted with the "outside" facing the outside - it could be that this thick rubber flange is interfering with one of the suspension arms. Please also check that the tyres you received are all marked "225/45R17". If they are wider then it could also cause the symptoms you describe.

 

[Chris Murray]

This example of the 17" Homan on W203 with 225/45R17 tyres fitted without any issues. If the tyres and orientation are all ok on your S203, ask the garage if it is just on full suspension extension that they rub, or at normal operating height too. If all of this is ok, then a small 3-5mm Mercedes dedicated TUV approved spacer should bring the wheel out sufficiently.

 

[JonFB]

thank you malcom & Chris...Naively I'm hoping they just stuck the tyres on the wrong way round...sound's like I have the right kit it's just the boys are doing something wrong with it!

Will post in the morning as soon as I have it sorted (fingers crossed).

Goodnight all.



Jon

 

[television]

thank you malcom & Chris...Naively I'm hoping they just stuck the tyres on the wrong way round...sound's like I have the right kit it's just the boys are doing something wrong with it!

Will post in the morning as soon as I have it sorted (fingers crossed).

Goodnight all.



Jon

At the best of times Jon there is only around 5 mm clearance, lets hope as you say the tyres are on backwards

 

[type49]

8.5j for the fronts seems too big. The biggest MB fit on a 203 is 7.5j 225 on the front & 8.5 255 on the rear.

 

[television]

8.5j for the fronts seems too big. The biggest MB fit on a 203 is 7.5j 225 on the front & 8.5 255 on the rear.

This man is right again, in fact the 7.5 j is only for AMG cars the max on non AMG is 7"

 

[Chris Murray]

8.5j for the fronts seems too big. The biggest MB fit on a 203 is 7.5j 225 on the front & 8.5 255 on the rear.

Almost correct...

The AMG II are 18x8" with an 18x9" rear option.
Other tuners fit wider, with Carlsson fitting a 19x8.5ET28 at the front.
Also, the 255/35R18 tyre is not the correct size for the 18x8.5" rear.. it should be 245/35R18.
The "max width" on non-AMG cars is exactly the same as AMG cars. The presence of various factory options affects things slightly, but there are plenty of non-AMG Mercedes oem wheels at 17x7.5" and 18x7.5" approved for the front axle.

 

[type49]

Almost correct...

The AMG II are 18x8" with an 18x9" rear option.
Other tuners fit wider, with Carlsson fitting a 19x8.5ET28 at the front.
Also, the 255/35R18 tyre is not the correct size for the 18x8.5" rear.. it should be 245/35R18.
The "max width" on non-AMG cars is exactly the same as AMG cars. The presence of various factory options affects things slightly, but there are plenty of non-AMG Mercedes oem wheels at 17x7.5" and 18x7.5" approved for the front axle.

Yes & you could poss go wider again but I meant without varying the offset & putting wheel spacers on, which a lot of the companies - including Brabus do. They can be made to fit but at a HUGE sacrifice to the way the car drives.

 

[Chris Murray]

Not quite sure of your point..?
Why is varying the offset an issue? So long as it's within an acceptable range, the variation is just determined by whatever the wheel technician decided.. and sometimes it's really arbitrary. Wider wheels usually have lower offset, and it's purely for aesthetics.
Brabus and many other tuners have their wheels manufactured in a high offset (like 45) and fit offset reduction kits to make the base casting appropriate for more than one chassis range. There's a big fear of spacers in UK because the industry is so poorly regulated compared to say, Germany. When the local motor factor sells spacers, they can be terrible quality, poor grade aluminium discs with machined slots in them to fit all sorts of vehicles.
These shouldn't be confused with the positive locating hubcentric TUV approved type devices that Brabus and the very few quality Uk Mercedes specialists supply.

 

[Chris Murray]

Thread hijack and it'll give Jon something to scroll through in the morning but I have some example images:

a proper dedicated spacer, in this instance for 171/203/209/211 front axle
and

which is typical of motor factor "universal spacers". And people wonder why their wheels "wobble" because they aren't centred on the hubs..

 

[television]

Thread hijack and it'll give Jon something to scroll through in the morning but I have some example images:

a proper dedicated spacer, in this instance for 171/203/209/211 front axle
and

which is typical of motor factor "universal spacers". And people wonder why their wheels "wobble" because they aren't centred on the hubs..

Yes we are aware of fitting non hubcentric wheels to MBs and the impossible to balance issues

 

[hmang]

Thread hijack and it'll give Jon something to scroll through in the morning but I have some example images:

a proper dedicated spacer, in this instance for 171/203/209/211 front axle
and

which is typical of motor factor "universal spacers". And people wonder why their wheels "wobble" because they aren't centred on the hubs..

this is all interesting and useful new information to me.

 

[television]

These wheels are never going to be OK on this car. I missed the 8½ j that Type 49 put up.

Once you fit spacers to get clearance from the suspension your problems are just starting. The handling is going to be affected also pointed out by Type 49 and I agree completely.

Why, this car has ESP, that means that the BAS is used in varying degrees to control the car when things get out of hand. This is all calculated in the design and build of the car.

It is not correct to say that it is the wheel manufacturers who control the ET on the car, it is the car maker, it is also incorrect to use AMG in this argument as on AMG cars, they are fitted with different disc, calipers and ABS pump that combines the BAS, and are also programmed accordingly.

I feel that these wheels should not have been sold to Jon for fitting onto his 203 it will never be OK, they will rub on full lock and eventually wear through the arch liner.

By fitting spacers the wheels will sit almost to the outside of the car, you cant do just the front, you have to do all 4, so that means new bolts as well all to make the car handle badly.

Jon should be given his money back in my view and we should observe the warning in our handbooks that changing the ET of the wheels will upset the built in safety handling features on our cars, A few Numbers is OK, this is over the limit allowed

 

[JonFB]

These wheels are never going to be OK on this car. I missed the 8½ j that Type 49 put up.

...I feel that these wheels should not have been sold to Jon for fitting onto his 203 it will never be OK, they will rub on full lock and eventually wear through the arch liner.

Can I just check - Is it the alloys that are the problem or the tyres themselves?

The guy at alloywheelsdirect is being very helpful and offering spacers or replacement alloys or a full refund. I like the alloys I have bought, as they are quietly classy, and not "bling" in any way (which would look kinda sad on my lump of an estate). So...my question is - if I choose another tyre manufacturer, i.e. one without the "rim" - will all be hunky dory???

Or should I go for MB alloys made specifically for my model: These are allegidly available to me and presumably should be ok, although I prefer the simplicity of the MB Homan's I have bought?. The alloy company also say that the tyres I have bought will fit these:http://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/me...ate_s203_alloys/17_mercedes_alshain_wheel_174

So do I go for:
A) Replacement alloys and keep the continental tyres
or
B) Keep the alloys and buy replacement tyres...

Once again guys, I am most grateful for your helping in getting me out of this hole!



Jon

 

[television]

There are other issues in keeping these Hoffman wheels on the car, you cant just change the tyre as you do need more running clearance,the wheel bearing will wear out quicker, and you cant drive with the danger of the tyre being cut through the side wall.
The wheels will stick out 30 mm more than the original possibly damaging the body with stone chips and the driving quality and safety will be impaired.

I would not do it, but it is your car