Why over complicate something so simple.

[ruane]

I like my car.. it does what i want it to, most of the time.
But it is more complicated than it needs to be.. i mean it has computers controlling everything, from the auto lights and wipers to electric seats and a funny looking plastic key thing. I consider myself a healthy person, not overly lazy, and i don't really have a problem adjusting my seat the odd time. I couldn't give a ****e if my mirrors fold in automatically or not. And as for the fly-by-wire throttle.. hmm

Anyway, i just want a car that doesn't need to worry about bulll**** switches and sensors controlling everything. Maybe even without an air mass sensor. Just let the turbo spin. Safety is important, so build it heavy and strong. Accidents happen, and there are no winners, but there are different levels of losing - and having crashed a merc before, and seeing the damage - and then seeing the remains of the other car.. well you get the idea.

So, people at mercedes, build me a big safe comfy car that will look nice and drive smooth, with power there when i need it. But please, relax on the computer gadgetry. I'm sure there are more out there like me, who really couldn't care less about SAMs and whatever else they have. We just want it to work when the key is turned.

Oh and please don't suggest that i buy a honda. I like riding their bikes, thats where the love of them ends.

 

[hawk20]

My wife is a little over 5ft. I'm about 6ft. We both drive the car every day. We value electric memory seats, and memory for the mirrors, very highly indeed.

We also like the mirrors to fold away when parked as this reduces the chance of people damaging them.

But these were options and we didn't have to choose them.

So was parktronic and again we both value this extra.

ABS saves countless lives and ESP is reckoned by many experts to reduce accidents by up to 40%.

A whole heap of electronics are there to meet the increasing emissions regulations.

You cannot by a MB without a lot of electronics but the base models without extras do cut the amount of electronics by a fair wack.

But I do agree cars are getting incredibly complicated and this years extra soon becomes standard gear. Not all the complex kit is necessary. But it is nice!

 

[jberks]

I know it seems complex but all the engine gadgetry actually makes the car more reliable.
No more setting points, no more adjusting the mixture, no more chokes, no more tweaking the ignition timing.
All these things make the car vastly more efficient. Mechanical adjustment will always be a compromise as engines have different needs in different condition. Air Mass Sensors, O2 sensors and the rest mean its 100% optimal 100% of the time. When something is wrong, rather than just dying, it drops into a preset mode or a workaround mode and gets you home. Its brilliant really.

People complain when a sensor fails but ask yourself this. When was the last time your car didn't start? When did it REALLY last let you down?
I've had failures, broken parts, duff sensors etc but in spite of this, I've never once been sat at the side of the road waiting for a recovery truck. Not something I could say about less complex cars I've owned.

Admittedly the bonnet may as well have a "No user servicable parts inside" sticker these days, but I suspect we'll catch up and young lads will be as happy with a laptop and an OBD cable as we were with a big flathead screwdriver and a 13mm spanner!

 

[Miffy]

Yep, I remember my granada, cortina and capri days, every year paying for crypton tunes, carb cleaning was almost a 6 monthly job, auto chokes that didnt. They were the good old days maybe, but let them stay the good old days, look back and remember the fun, and now embrace the future, god I love the way I can wire up a PC to my car and see whats going on, even to the point of telling you if even so much as a switch is faulty.

 

[Richard Moakes]

I am sure that I will be burned as a heretic when I say I agree with the original post.

For me, in car technology peaked in about 1990, at that point we had systems such as Airbags, ASD, ASR, ABS etc... but we didn't have CANbus, SAM's etc..

Vacuum and hydraulic systems are complex, but they are proven technology which can be diagnosed with good fault finding and basic engineering skills. Once you need to plug in a computer to diagnose what's wrong then it's all far too complicated.

How many main dealers have mechanics with real fault finding skills any more? Most of them just plug in the computer and it says which expensive part to replace. When the reality might be a corroded connection, earth fault, or something far cheaper or simpler.

I will now go quietly into my bomb shelter and await the incoming fire

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Once you need to plug in a computer to diagnose what's wrong then it's all far too complicated.

How many main dealers have mechanics with real fault finding skills any more?

You are quite correct Richard - the moment a miracle diagnostic device is available, people stop thinking and place their faith in it. The mechanics lose their skills and soon lose their ability to work out the root of the problem from first principles - an essential skill if you are ever to make discriminating use of the diagnostics.

With cars it is laptops. In medicine these days, it is scans. There is even an advert on TV which offers to put you through a scanner and diagnose all your ills. Rubbish!

Once we get away from deciding what is wrong by inquiry and tests of function, and rely purely on the gadgetry, we are doomed.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

I like my car.. it does what i want it to, most of the time.

Anyway, i just want a car that doesn't need to worry about bulll**** switches and sensors controlling everything.

So, people at Mercedes, build me a big safe comfy car that will look nice and drive smooth, with power there when i need it.

I sympathize with the idea, but in reality, my experience tells me different.

In the 1960s I used to have a Rover 105S - an iconic car, and everything you asked for, big safe, smooth, powerful (for its era), quite economical for a big car and almost totally silent when driving along. The only time it ever let me down was when the distributor cap failed.

OK, I had to set the choke, tune it from time to time, worry about the drum brakes fading and remember not to use all the electrics at night (dynamo, not alternator - so the lights dimmed and the car eventually just stopped).

In the 1980s I wanted one as a fun car (£150, in specimen condition). When I drove it, I was sadly disappointed - it was a 30 year old car, and it showed - heavy low geared steering, very heavy clutch, ineffective brakes, dim headlights, very relaxed handling.

Cars have come a very long way over the years and the number of "improvements" in the new E Class indicate how fast manufacturers have to run just to stand still.

I agree with jberks - I like my car which starts first time every time, no choke, automatic gears, wipers, lights, power steering, excellent brakes, variable suspension - the list goes on. They are all there, working for me all the time, and I really appreciate it.

 

[robertjrt]

You are quite correct Richard - the moment a miracle diagnostic device is available, people stop thinking and place their faith in it. The mechanics lose their skills and soon lose their ability to work out the root of the problem from first principles - an essential skill if you are ever to make discriminating use of the diagnostics.

With cars it is laptops. In medicine these days, it is scans. There is even an advert on TV which offers to put you through a scanner and diagnose all your ills. Rubbish!

Once we get away from deciding what is wrong by inquiry and tests of function, and rely purely on the gadgetry, we are doomed.

How many of use have been in a shop to ask for an item only to be told it is "out of stock" according to the computer only to find the item on the shelf, ditto with finding faults, "it needs a new XXX", but, when you look, its a frayed/corroded wire or similar.

Yes, car are very much better today, but, the more "connectors" the more fail points.

 

[PanzerMcGrory]

Im a man of simple pleasures,
nice engine, leather, autobox, electric windows and bodywork that doesnt rust like a Datsun.

Im with Alex on his point but i still wish they could take away all the sh#te i will never use in my life like make it go faster front fog lights, headlight washers, all the pointless warning switches that fail like the one to tell you the bonnet is open and most of all the drivers computer which on my deathbed i will still never understand.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

and most of all the drivers computer which on my deathbed i will still never understand.

You are a young man yet, Don. Wait until you are stricken in years, like I am, and need all the help you can get!

 

[SilverSaloon]

people expect these things on modern cars. its progress.

in a few years time you'll look back at your current car and it will all appear very old fasioned and basic i'm sure.

 

[RiceBurner]

I like my car.. it does what i want it to, most of the time.
But it is more complicated than it needs to be.. i mean it has computers controlling everything, from the auto lights and wipers to electric seats and a funny looking plastic key thing. I consider myself a healthy person, not overly lazy, and i don't really have a problem adjusting my seat the odd time. I couldn't give a ****e if my mirrors fold in automatically or not. And as for the fly-by-wire throttle.. hmm

Anyway, i just want a car that doesn't need to worry about bulll**** switches and sensors controlling everything. Maybe even without an air mass sensor. Just let the turbo spin. Safety is important, so build it heavy and strong. Accidents happen, and there are no winners, but there are different levels of losing - and having crashed a merc before, and seeing the damage - and then seeing the remains of the other car.. well you get the idea.

So, people at mercedes, build me a big safe comfy car that will look nice and drive smooth, with power there when i need it. But please, relax on the computer gadgetry. I'm sure there are more out there like me, who really couldn't care less about SAMs and whatever else they have. We just want it to work when the key is turned.

Oh and please don't suggest that i buy a honda. I like riding their bikes, thats where the love of them ends.

Buy a W124.

 

[Richard Moakes]

Buy a W124.

or an early R129 :lol:

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi,
I think you would need to go older than a 124 or an early 129, they still have ECU's, fuel injection, ABS etc.
Even going to a 123 would still be to advanced from what I interpret from the O/P's post.
I as Mark had a collection of Fords, Cortina's, Capri's etc, and for the life of me I cannot think of a weekend when I was,nt under the bonnet giving it a tweek, setting the points, carburetter etc. I for one do not miss those cars as my day to day transport one bit (though I would still possibly have one as a hobby car). Mercedes have always been one of the pioneers of leading edge technologies, there are items that are standard on my 1999 C class AMG that some manufacturers are only just adopting now, Yet MB have moved on yet again!
As Silver Saloon say's people expect new technologies, and that is the reason why MB's are more complicated, and are departing further from the DIY mechanic/enthuisast abilities.
Though as a previous post says in years to come are cars at present will be considered simple.
Its all the price of progress and innovation I,m afraid.

 

[Splatt]

I have come to the conclusion that it is the complex nature of vehicles these days that means they will not make reliable classics of the future.
I remember when an apprentice the foreman bought an old Austin 7 saloon, although he was 6ft and 18 stone . It was 30 years old then but it was unstopable and would rattle along at 30 all day long. One day the crank rod broke and came out through the side of the block wrapping around the dynamo. No problem new rod and piston, bolt a plate over the hole in the block and straight back on the road. With modern cars once they get to 8 years old a problem with the electrickery getting in a twist or the self adjusting wobbeliser going critical can mean "Hello end of life vehicle programme". Where is the environmental economy in that.

 

[discoking]

Modern cars are crap tbh and if the trend continues these modern cars will become uneconomical to repair once they get to about 5yrs old.Modern diesels are already a huge pain in the ass to repair and cost a fortune to repair because they are sooo ****** complicated,there are lots of modern diesels I wont sell because of the potential repair costs.

 

[discoking]

I have come to the conclusion that it is the complex nature of vehicles these days that means they will not make reliable classics of the future.
I remember when an apprentice the foreman bought an old Austin 7 saloon, although he was 6ft and 18 stone . It was 30 years old then but it was unstopable and would rattle along at 30 all day long. One day the crank rod broke and came out through the side of the block wrapping around the dynamo. No problem new rod and piston, bolt a plate over the hole in the block and straight back on the road. With modern cars once they get to 8 years old a problem with the electrickery getting in a twist or the self adjusting wobbeliser going critical can mean "Hello end of life vehicle programme". Where is the environmental economy in that.

Nicely put.

 

[PanzerMcGrory]

You are a young man yet, Don. Wait until you are stricken in years, like I am, and need all the help you can get!

My dad was the longest lived McGrory at 67 and my jobs life expectancy is 57 so dont know if i will manage to get a grip of the computer in time

problem with the information display is that faults cant be ignored, my bonnet release switch failed and it was sorted by the warranty but if was out of warranty it would be a fault i could quite happily live with but the car wont let you !!!

 

[turbopete]

Hi,
I think you would need to go older than a 124 or an early 129, they still have ECU's, fuel injection, ABS etc.
Even going to a 123 would still be to advanced from what I interpret from the O/P's post.
I as Mark had a collection of Fords, Cortina's, Capri's etc, and for the life of me I cannot think of a weekend when I was,nt under the bonnet giving it a tweek, setting the points, carburetter etc. I for one do not miss those cars as my day to day transport one bit (though I would still possibly have one as a hobby car). Mercedes have always been one of the pioneers of leading edge technologies, there are items that are standard on my 1999 C class AMG that some manufacturers are only just adopting now, Yet MB have moved on yet again!
As Silver Saloon say's people expect new technologies, and that is the reason why MB's are more complicated, and are departing further from the DIY mechanic/enthuisast abilities.
Though as a previous post says in years to come are cars at present will be considered simple.
Its all the price of progress and innovation I,m afraid.

i had more fords than i know what to do with, considering my age! for me, it was the tinkering with them at work in dinner break and messing around swapping things to improve your car that made them fun! now, its so complicated to improve them or personalise them without lots of time/money etc

i do concede though that cars are much nicer to drive now, more economical, more reliable (to a point) BUT more complicated to repair if things go wrong, often more expensive to repair

 

[bigasotonuk]

i had more fords than i know what to do with, considering my age! for me, it was the tinkering with them at work in dinner break and messing around swapping things to improve your car that made them fun! now, its so complicated to improve them or personalise them without lots of time/money etc

i do concede though that cars are much nicer to drive now, more economical, more reliable (to a point) BUT more complicated to repair if things go wrong, often more expensive to repair

I don,t disagree but i was 18 at the time, as you get older time is increasingly more precious, i have often thought about revisiting my youth and buying an old Ford, but have you seen the price an old MK3 Cortina goes for now.