Worrying drop in fuel prices.

[om613]

From what I understand then he is doing it wrong; it should just be the colour that is affected not the viscosity. The chemistry isn't too hard to follow for a duffer like me.

In terms of cost, I can source cooking oil for £40/ 100 litres; potassium hydroxide for £6/kg and methanol for £0.80/ litre. 100 litres biodiesel will require 500g + titration of KOH and 22 litres of methanol, add in the leccy cost this comes out to £61.03 for the yield, say 90-92 litres. That's anywhere between £0.60-0.66/litre cost price to me.

If you have to pay fuel duty that's £0.5795/litre, that works out to £1.24/litre. So running the numbers I have, you'd have to be able to get hold of oil at £0.15/litre in order to be able to produce and sell (at cost- no profit!) biodiesel at the current pump prices.

All out of date info, Craig.
WVO you can currently get at 0 to 20 p/l.
SVO (new oil) 50 p/l in quantity (a 1000L IBC).
Meth. is currently 35 p/l for 205L.
Most don't titrate anymore! 2 stage no tit process!
You can use as low as 13% methanol, too.

Whether your oil is free or bought, the above processing costs equate to 10 p/l. There is the 'big factor' of time, mess and inevitable leaks to factor in.

Most if not all 'off the shelf' kit is poor both from a safety aspect and the way the fuel is 'finished'.

Feel free to PM me for advice etc.

 

[om613]

The way some cars regenerate for emission control may not be suitable to bio use

One of my sons has a 2008 PD engined golf (high pressure but not common rail)and it runs a treat on Veg oil/petrol blend

The 'big one' here is DPF regens.
Bio doesn't evaporate like diesel does with heat, so any excess fuel injected during a regen. cycle stays in the sump.

This manifests itself in a rising sump oil level. The two oil types, heated,mixed and under pressure polymerise eventually, i.e. turn in to a rubbery gooey plastic.

 

[Ben Longden]

98 Octane; $1.24 litre
91 octane; $1.07
Diesel $1.14

22.1.16 at Wallan, norf of Melbun on the 'Ume Ighway.

 

[Craiglxviii]

All out of date info, Craig.
WVO you can currently get at 0 to 20 p/l.
SVO (new oil) 50 p/l in quantity (a 1000L IBC).
Meth. is currently 35 p/l for 205L.
Most don't titrate anymore! 2 stage no tit process!
You can use as low as 13% methanol, too.

Whether your oil is free or bought, the above processing costs equate to 10 p/l. There is the 'big factor' of time, mess and inevitable leaks to factor in.

Most if not all 'off the shelf' kit is poor both from a safety aspect and the way the fuel is 'finished'.

Feel free to PM me for advice etc.

I don't doubt the recepie I posted is out of date, but the prices definitely aren't, I sourced them online a few hours before I posted. The methanol in particular I was surprised to get so cheap but there you go. SVO i sourced from eBay but many Alibaba suppliers will supply single IBCS...

 

[Essel]

It's a funny old world, the price of oil is falling falling, we should be happy...but we are doomed.

Anybody else worried about this, or am I alone?

I'm loving WOT on the SL55 thanks. Keep it low.

 

[television]

98 Octane; $1.24 litre
91 octane; $1.07
Diesel $1.14

22.1.16 at Wallan, norf of Melbun on the 'Ume Ighway.

That is near on half our price Ben

 

[Craiglxviii]

We just need a pipeline from Oz now

 

[keefysher]

The two oil types, heated,mixed and under pressure polymerise eventually, i.e. turn in to a rubbery gooey plastic.

Interesting term of phrases. Is it rubber or plastic? 2 different things. Polymer - many units, long non crystalline chain. Wot's polymerise, is it a new form of mastication? Or did you mean homogenous? But lets not get details involved in the discussion, huh?

 

[Craiglxviii]

And oil-fired steam turbine engines produce "plastic refractory", it had to be blown out of the stacks every month or so. Engine room crews loved this as it covers the decks with sh1t.

 

[keefysher]

And oil-fired steam turbine engines produce "plastic refractory", it had to be blown out of the stacks every month or so. Engine room crews loved this as it covers the decks with sh1t.

Is sh1t rubber or plastic? Can you curl it out on a baggage trolley?

 

[om613]

I don't doubt the recepie I posted is out of date, but the prices definitely aren't, I sourced them online a few hours before I posted. The methanol in particular I was surprised to get so cheap but there you go.

You aren't looking at a competitive supplier, in that case.
This week I have bought 205L of methanol for £80 and 25 Kg of KOH for £40.From here, www.trinity-research.co.uk
They deliver, too. Their ebay shop is better and possibly cheaper than their website!

 

[Craiglxviii]

Again I don't doubt you. That was a first cut to get me some ballpark pricing data. As I said, I haven't begun to source anything aggressively yet- I just wanted to know if there was still a significant cost price difference between pump at £0.99/l, and homebrew biodiesel. If I can get the raw materials for £0.60/l without much effort, it looks like there is.

 

[Craiglxviii]

You aren't looking at a competitive supplier, in that case.
This week I have bought 205L of methanol for £80 and 25 Kg of KOH for £40.From here, www.trinity-research.co.uk
They deliver, too. Their ebay shop is better and possibly cheaper than their website!

NB using my old recipe and SVO cost, and your new KOH & methanol costs, this comes out to £0.493/l. Not bad, half the pump price now.

 

[om613]

NB using my old recipe and SVO cost, and your new KOH & methanol costs, this comes out to £0.493/l. Not bad, half the pump price now.

That's moving in the right direction:-D.
I'll split the bag of KOH with you if you like, as 10Kg lasts me a year.

 

[Craiglxviii]

That's an incredibly generous offer, thank you. If I do get a reactor- it all depends on clearing out (and keeping clear!) the garage I will let you know. We're in a rented place until I can save up a stonking deposit so things are a bit more limited than would be the case otherwise.

Right now, we have a small, old, concrete prefab type garage, big enough for a Moggy at a guess, that has a large Samsung fridge freezer, washing machine, 6' Erde hardtop trailer, and all the associated cack that one accumulates but never discards. It's the cack that needs sorting, I figure on a 4 x 4' space in a far corner being big enough.

 

[turbopete]

That's incorrect. As is so much one hears about properly made or not B100.
It's classic 'bloke in the pub said' territory!

sorry, but have you actually seen the stuff i was using? as i would assume not due to your location, how can you possibly say a comment i made about fuel i used was incorrect? in various vehicles in the family we collectively ran the stuff for well over 100k miles without issue HOWEVER i did throw some brand new oil in the same vehicles and, to my eyes and the time taken for it to run through our funnel, both it AND the biodiesel we were using were the same viscosity.

as for properly made or not, you can only thin an oil down by heating it or adding something to thin it. as the stuff i was using is regularly checked at an independent lab for the quality to ensure there are no excess levels of anything left in it, etc (ie its up to EN standard) then theres really not much that can be wrong.
yes you can buy thinning additives but theres none added to the stuff i was using. it was removed from where he gets it, had all the old chips, breadcrumbs and batter etc filtered from it down to whatever size his filters are (i cant remember now) then it went through all the washing and other processes and comes out the other end after spending numerous hours going through his plant, as biodiesel. if it wasnt more viscous than diesel, why do many sites dedicated to biodiesel research the subject so much and then recommend some vehicles run with twin tanks and inline heaters etc? why would you need twin tanks and fuel heaters if its the same viscosity as pump diesel? the simple answer is you wouldnt, as there would be no need for the heat to thin the fuel down.

 

[om613]

Strewth! No need to rant.

You said "the viscosity (of B100) remains pretty much the same as it is in its cooking oil form".

I replied that it doesn't. Which is correct.
I'm not commenting on what you used, obviously

 

[turbopete]

Strewth! No need to rant.

You said "the viscosity (of B100) remains pretty much the same as it is in its cooking oil form".

I replied that it doesn't. Which is correct.
I'm not commenting on what you used, obviously

yes, but had the comment been taken in context, it was obvious that i was referring to the very stuff ive seen made, seen the samples sent to the labs etc.

that still doesnt answer why i would need fuel heaters to run it on a car without a fuel heater in many cases there has to be a reason for this

 

[Craiglxviii]

yes, but had the comment been taken in context, it was obvious that i was referring to the very stuff ive seen made, seen the samples sent to the labs etc.

that still doesnt answer why i would need fuel heaters to run it on a car without a fuel heater in many cases there has to be a reason for this

Twin tanks and preheated are for cars running SVO/ WVO. Biodiesel is miscible with and directly interchangeable with petrodiesel.

 

[om613]

Twin tanks and preheated are for cars running SVO/ WVO. Biodiesel is miscible with and directly interchangeable with petrodiesel.

That's right.
Viscosity-wise, EN standard bio will run in any diesel car. But it will not run well and reliably in EVERY diesel car (see the earlier DPF comment).

The visco-difference between veg and bio is basically this:
The veg oil (fatty acid) has its glycerol component removed (this is thick!) and it is replace by pure alcohol (thinner than water, so they say...).
So the resultant biodiesel (methyl esters) is much thinner!