wrong part?

[pivers]

can someone please take a look at this photo and tell me if this ball joint looks right. The taper is definitely right home but I'm not sure about the gap between balljoint and hub casting [about 4mm]. The joints were supplied by europarts and I have to admit that even if they are seated right they're still crap. The rubber boot on the other one has lifted away so that I can see under it which obviously means It'll need replacing in the near future due to dirt ingress. It was only held in place by a feeble piece of coil springing and must have came adrift during fitting even though that side dropped straight into place without any problems. I intend to replace both joints with genuine merc parts but would like to know if I'm safe for the time being. Reason I say this is that the first time I used the car after fitting the joints I lost control on a bend near here. I have to add that it is a notorious accident black spot and the road was wet and outside of a farmyard but I have travelled that way hundreds of times without incident. I can definitely say that in the 4 years I've had this car [97'c250 td sport] I have never had anything even resembling a skid and I was very surprised how hard it was to control the car in this one, having to correct the fishtailing 4 times, luckily on a deserted road.
As always I'd be grateful for any input,[Except snide comments about my driving]
Cheers
Pete
p.s. Still trying to insert photo.

 

[bushy30]

Pete,

Firstly I'm no expert on these things but............

Recently replaced a ball joint on a van (not a merc), the thing was mental to drave after 48 hours, took it back to sort out what was going on and although the nut had gone down tight it had come to the end of the thread and wasn't actually tight in place.

You gussed it, it was a pattern part replacement, thing is we got another pattern part in just in case.... lined both of them up together, both had the same thread length !

Remedy........... big washer under the nut to allow the nut to tighten the joint in properly.

Job done

Hope that helps

Bushy

 

[pivers]

Jeez that was Quick. I'll certainly try that especially as it's easy to do.
Cheers
Pete

 

[pivers]

Hi bushy, me again. I've just remembered that while fitting the balljoint [it took a few goes] I noticed that the taper was making proper contact. The tapered part of the balljoint itself was a kind of blackened finish so it was obvious where it had been making contact and this was uniform along its length. Hope i've explained this ok.
cheers
pete

 

[bushy30]

Hi Pete,

Have you checked ot for tightness?It was really difficult to tell on the van, I was working with a mechanic of 35 years experience and it was him doig the fit not me, and it was him that did'nt spot that it wasn't seated tight enough.

Cheers

Bushy

 

[pivers]

hi bushy
I'll check that as soon as the weather clears a bit.
Pete

 

[brandwooddixon]

That doesn't look right, although I've only experience with W210 lower balljoints - see my thread.

Quality of the parts aside are you sure that you have fitted it correctly.

The taper with the hardened pin next to it fits into the lower wishbone. It should not sit proud like.

The other taper fits vertically into the wheel hub.

Points to ask:
1. Did the ball joint look anything like the old one.
2. Are you certain that you've fitted the new ball joint to the correct side of the lower wishbone.

Ultimately if you answer yes to both then I would suggest that you buy the part from a dealer - they're not that expensive.

 

[pivers]

Hi Chris
The ball joints are identical both sides so no chance of confusion there. I don't know if it's possible to fit them the wrong way round in the hub but I made sure I didn't. I think the peg would definitely interfere with the vertical taper seating if fitted the wrong way round. The old and new parts looked the same also, at least dimensionally.
However I appreciate you taking the time to reply and the points you are making especially concerning fitting MB parts and I certainly intend changing them. I have included a photo of the old part [it's just occurred to me to compare the taper fit with the new one] and you can see that the taper and pin go much further in than the replacement. Note also the way the rubber boot is bonded to the casting and not tied on with wire.
Thanks again
pete

 

[brandwooddixon]

I'm sorry to here that there was no obvious mistake in fitting, but just had to ask as you never know.

If it's one thing that I've learnt with MB it's that you should always check the dealer prices.

For items which require routine replacement they're quite competitive on price. Sure at times they may be a few pounds more, but they always fit and are generally better quality than some of the pattern parts available out there.

I've even been known to buy Mobil 1 from mine - at the time it was £8 per 4 litre can cheaper than Halfords!

 

[dougjoy]

I replaced my nerside front lower ball joint a few months ago with a Mercedes part and the fit was the same as your photo. Even the old one that was replaced did not fit completely flush and when I checked the offside it was the same slightly proud.

I have done about 10K miles with it now with no problems.

Hope this helps

 

[brandwooddixon]

That's just plain strange. They fit flush on my W210.

 

[bushy30]

Hi All,

I have to agree, it is very very strange, as I said in my first post, I'm no expert, just help out 'my man that can' and learn a bit on the way. Not sure what to suggest next really..........sorry

Bushy

 

[pivers]

I must admit that since that original skid I've had no problems but I am still changing the balljoints to be on the safe side. The locating peg is there for a reason and as it only goes in the hole about 1- 2 mm at the most there's a chance it may shear then the whole joint would twist.
2 joints from europarts £26-02 incl.
2 joints from Mercedes £56-48 + v.a.t.
Peace of mind. Priceless.....
Cheers
Pete

p.s.
Anyone reading this thread could be forgiven for wondering why I didn't go to Merc. for the parts in the first place. Below is part of the reason;

My first visit to Mercedes [Newcastle on Tyne] was for a new boot lock.
Home>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newcastle
Purchased lock. Had to order rubber grommet [not supplied]
Newcastle >>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home
Rubber grommet now in stock.
Home >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newcastle
Rubber grommet too big, order other one.
Newcastle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home
Other grommet now in stock.
Home >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newcastle
Grommet too little. Assistant says my car must have a replacement boot as there are only 2 types of grommet and they'd tried them both.
Newcastle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home
Cut grommet with stanley knife, superglued ends.

Second purchase;
During service at my local garage the mechanic asked me to get some replacement captive nuts for the engine tray. Rang Merc explained exactly what I wanted. Guy ordered them.
Home >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newcastle
Ass. presents me with three plastic bags full of all kinds of fittings and mouldings. On enquiring I was told. " well I wasn't sure which part you needed so I ordered everthing on the page".............! As I wasn't sure myself what the parts I wanted looked like I took them all to show to the mechanic.
Newcastle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>> Home
Mechanic says "I don't know what all this ***** is but the part you need isn't amongst it.
Home >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newcastle
Returned parts and eventually located on drawing which part I needed ordered same.
Newcastle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Home
part now in stock.
Home >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newcastle
Got part enquired as to £15 refund. " We need your bank card to give you a refund" I had ordered the part over the phone without bringing the card in so I couldn't see why, as they obviously had my card details, they could not refund my money there and then. However, I'd seen enough of these guys to last me for a long while so I never did get my money back.
Newcastle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 Miles >>>>>>>>>>>>> HOME

p.p.s.
When ordering the ball joints the conversation went like this. "Hello could you check to see if you have these parts in for me please. They're two front bottom ball joints"
"What year is the car sir?"
"Would it not be better to give you the engine number?"
Yes.
Are you ready?
Yes.
W...D....B....2....0...2....1.....2...8.....
Just a minute.... I'd better get a pen....

 

[kth286]

VIN IS needed EVERY time - never had your sort of problems in six years.

It pays to make friends with the parts people and so face to face is priceless initially until you get to know each other.

 

[pivers]

Not quite sure what you mean David.
I always give the vin. no. I even have slips of paper printed with the no. on plus any other relevant details.
Face to face? Does that mean that I have to present myself in person to order the part and then, after another 14 mile round trip pick it up?
Meaning no offence but I think I detect some doubt on your part regarding my tale and who can blame you, it is quite incredible after all.
Pete

 

[pivers]

Ok, last word on the subject [from me anyway]. I switched the balljoints this afternoon and took a photo of one of the old ones. If you look at the locating pin you can see how little it had entered the hole in the casting. Next to it is the pin out of the other balljoint. It's supposed to stay in the balljoint but came out easily. I had to mangle it up a bit to get it out of the casting end though and this was after only a few weeks [on this side the pin entered about 4mm] . You can imagine the trouble you'd have removing it after a few years.
Finally, just in case anyone thinks I'm having a dig at Europarts in general I'm certainly not. They've saved me a lot of money over the years [last time was for a rear light cluster which was original and about half list price] and I will certainly still use them in the future, just not for brake or steering parts.

 

[Richard Moakes]

Just one question, which manufacturer was the joint from Europarts?

Febi, Lemforder ?

I have just rebuilt my R129's front end using Febi and Lemforder parts, and I am very pleased with the fit and finish.

 

[pivers]

Mystery Balljoints

Hi Richard
The parts came in a plastic bag with only a lot of numbers on and no clue as to their origin either on the bag or stamped on the parts. I suppose I should have asked.
I returned them today without any problems though.
Cheers
Pete.
p.s. Regarding Mercedes service I have to add that my comments do not apply to the Repair/Servicing side of their operation with which I have no complaints. On the last occasion I put my car in for a gearbox oil change at 9 o'clock and picked it up at two o'clock all done and valetted into the bargain.

 

[BlackC55]

You have bought the cheapie BJ from euro. They do other quality's which are much better.

 

[pivers]

Sorry haven't checked site for a while.Thanks for the info though. I can think of several things that bj could stand for especially if somebody'd asked me while I was lying under my car freezing my nuts off for the second time.
Seriously though I have to admit, having worked in engineering a long time ago, that tapers are notoriously difficult to form accurately. You only have to look at a jewellers ring gauge to see this. Two almost identical rings can rest an inch or so away from each other.
Cheers
Pete