Brexit

[Frontstep]

Whats this hate nonsense should I put it with the tired xenophobic racist jibes ?

I still think the EU had the potential to be good until the political zealots ruined it.
If they hadn't I would be a firm in.
Cameron coming home with diddly was the final straw for me.

 

[Frontstep]

The Lords as I am sure will be shown soon can be ignored.

 

[Yugguy]

The biggest issue we will face in brexit is that we will need the rest of the EU politicians to make decisions based on economics and not politics. Trouble is that this is one of the main reasons that made us want to leave.

 

[Frontstep]

I am sure if the politicians had made pragmatic and sensible decisions we would still be in.

 

[davemercedes]

Interesting response. People have been saying "Haha we'll see" for years!

I've always thought our first/second chamber setup is a funny sort of democracy but the Lords job is supposed to be to "hold the government to account". It looks as though the government will try to bar the Lords amendments for Brexit and they probably can. But the over the years, governments of every political shade have threatened to change their terms or abolish them Wikipedia describes the last one that was abandoned due to Conservative pressure:

All three of the main parties promised to take action on Lords reform in the 2010 general election, and following it the Coalition Agreement included a promise to "establish a committee to bring forward proposals for a wholly or mainly elected upper chamber on the basis of proportional representation".[5] Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg introduced the House of Lords Reform Bill 2012 on 27 June 2012[6] which built on proposals published on 17 May 2011.[7] However, this Bill was abandoned by the Government on 6 August 2012 following opposition from within the Conservative Party. A successful attempt to pursue minor reform of the House was made on 14 May 2014 when the House of Lords Reform Act 2014 gained Royal Assent.
​

It's funnier still that the same Tory party that wanted to stop reform in 2012 is now threatening to abolish them! Hmm I wonder...

btw:

For those knocking the Lords, as I said above, their responsibility is to "hold the government to account". They very recently sent back the Digital Economy Bill 2016-17 where the government proposed a rather 10 Mbps minimum broadband speed and they sent it back saying it should be 30 Mbps.

This to my mind is making BT put back some of the enormous investment they received by flagrant pricing policies so the greet unwashed got what they were given and then they threw government (our) money at it. People who use Sky, Virgin etc get no government help though. Funny, that.

So it seems this is an example of the Lords doing their job - which is to "hold the government to account" correctly. That change wouldn't even be considered if the Lords did not intervene; It seems it's a case of their being useful if you agree with them, perhaps.

 

[davemercedes]

And here is me thinking that abolishing the unelected upper house would be right up your street Dave.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

I didn't say it is or isn't. I only raised the general question.
- Sorry for being subtle.

 

[M80]

I like that the Upper House isn't answerable to the Gov't, or party whips. So that they can hold the Lower House to account. Ideally we would have a viable opposition in the Lower House but even when we have that can be manipulated and bullied.

But the sacking of Heseltine and threats to the House by the Gov't suggest that the Upper House isn't really so independant.

I also question the content of the Upper House, who is there, put there by who (which Party), and for what purpose. This can reasonably query the independance of the individuals. I would like to think that Lords have a high level of intelligence gained by their years of experience who can and will stand up for their belief of what is just (like Heseltine). In reality though how many are aged numpties there to create a balance for Party desires?

For the Upper House to serve purpose it shouldn't be right for a PM to punish some one who bit the hand that fed him, as a warning.

 

[ansta1]

it's deferred pay in exchange for the corrupt acts committed whilst in office

Case in point....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39213346

 

[Taffy7hfa]

Democracy is dead in the water, has been for a while

 

[davemercedes]

Case in point....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39213346

But at least while he was Chancellor he remained on target to get our national debt down. Hammond wiped that away with one "swell foop" after the Brexit vote - today it's:

£ 1,829,426,200,300
- Still that's only 82% of GDP =£ 29,383 per citizen or £ 50,538 per taxpayer....

 

[Frontstep]

Or is it the size of Greeces per head ?


http://www.eudebtclock.org/


Good job were getting away from that basket case EU .............

 

[davemercedes]

Or is it the size of Greeces per head ?


http://www.eudebtclock.org/


Good job were getting away from that basket case EU .............

You mean the basket case that forced Greece to borrow all that money, falsify their accounts and lie about their financial status then lower the interest rate, write off a huge chunk of debt and bail them out?

 

[gizze]

But at least while he was Chancellor he remained on target to get our national debt down. Hammond wiped that away with one "swell foop" after the Brexit vote - today it's:

£ 1,829,426,200,300
- Still that's only 82% of GDP =£ 29,383 per citizen or £ 50,538 per taxpayer....

That debt is falling though, who else in the EU is reducing their debt?

Sweden, Netherlands, Croatia and Slovakia?

Still, With only 24 of the 28 nations in the EU increasing their debt it seems all is going well.

 

[davemercedes]

That debt is falling though, who else in the EU is reducing their debt?

Sweden, Netherlands, Croatia and Slovakia?

Still, With only 24 of the 28 nations in the EU increasing their debt it seems all is going well.

No it isn't - and since Hammond took over there's not even a pretence of trying to reduce it - the UK national debt grows at a rate of £5,170 per second! While I typed this our debt went up by more than £200,000! (I type slowly!). But never mind the others - I don't want to see politicians and bankers continuing to spend my great and probably great, great grandchildren's money and their future.


http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

 

[PovertySpec]

This is a good read, the opening paragraphs are designed to be hair raising but the subsequent number and frequency of 'buts' and 'howevers' dilute its initial momentum to sub parody.

Précis? We'll be OK.

This is bonkers. Utterly. It's Mein Kampf for federalists, remainers and turkeys.

Précis? See title.

It's trigger week.

Those of a nervous disposition brace yourselves :lol:

 

[Craiglxviii]

No it isn't - and since Hammond took over there's not even a pretence of trying to reduce it - the UK national debt grows at a rate of £5,170 per second! While I typed this our debt went up by more than £200,000! (I type slowly!). But never mind the others - I don't want to see politicians and bankers continuing to spend my great and probably great, great grandchildren's money and their future.


http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

That clock is a pure joke Dave. It's not linked to anything real, just a few assumptions on the part of the site owners.

 

[LostKiwi]

who else in the EU is reducing their debt?

Sweden, Netherlands, Croatia and Slovakia?

Still, With only 24 of the 28 nations in the EU increasing their debt it seems all is going well.

Denmark, Estonia and Cyprus as well (at a quick glance)

(and per capita the EU as an average owes less than the UK - oops thats a bit inconvenient isn't it!).

 

[davemercedes]

That clock is a pure joke Dave. It's not linked to anything real, just a few assumptions on the part of the site owners.

Joke or not Craig, WE - that's you, me and the other idiots who vote for our politicians pay the interest on it. Or rather we don't - which is why it's still growing. Even if you halve the number it's not possible to pay it off!

 

[gizze]

Denmark, Estonia and Cyprus as well (at a quick glance)

(and per capita the EU as an average owes less than the UK - oops thats a bit inconvenient isn't it!).

Of course it does, look at the size of some of the countries.

 

[LostKiwi]

Of course it does, look at the size of some of the countries.

Yeah - some are really low!