W203 'timing chain' issues-help needed!

[blondie01]

Hello, im new to the forum and i could do with a bit of advice please. I have a C180K auto 2004 (271 engine). A couple of weeks back the car would start normally when engine cold but i noticed that when i stopped & had to start the car for the 2nd time (ie popped to shops/put petrol in etc) it would hunt drastically from 500 to 1000 with a 'chuffing' sound for a short period (10 secs) then settle down & idle fine.When the car is idling its absolutely fine & it drives beautifully. If i leave the car for say an hour then start its fine but turn off & start again and does the hunting thing again. The engine light came on so took to my local independent Mercedes specialist who initally thought might be the breather hose split but tested & no air leaks found. The technician advised he thought it was the timing chain stretched which they stated is very rare. They ordered part & booked me on for the following week. (in the meantime i searched on here for timing chain stretch & noticed there may be a potential prob with timing chain on the 271 engine so accepted what they said).
Car was with them for a week, husband picked up the car, paid £700 & bought it home-engine light came back on. I started the engine a couple of times & the light went out so i presumed it may be the computer adjusting itself. For a week the car was fine, didnt do the hunting thing & i was very pleased. Then on thurs, the hunting problem on 2nd start up started again & its worse than before although no engine light on. I took the car back to the garage yesterday, they popped it on star & said they couldnt see any faults except its running a bit rich & he has ordered a part (i think it was an air recirc valve?) & i am to go back to have it fitted tuesday. On the way home engine light reappeared but it has since gone off.
Now, im a bit concerned as we have paid £700 & the car is exactly the same as before it went in for repairs. This makes me think, was the fault actually the timing chain at all? The garage im using have got a very good reputation. Would i be expected to pay for any extra work they have to do to solve this problem even though i have already paid to 'fix' it?

Has anyone experienced this start up hunting problem or can point me in the direction of what you might think it is?
Sorry for long post!! :Oops:

 

[television]

Oh dear another one,, please read here,it will not help much but it shows the same problems as you are having
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=81518

 

[Alex Crow]

hello and welcome.

it is going to be hard for us to say, all we can do is guess. the fact you have posted this here suggests you have some degree of communication issue with the garage - have you asked them these questions? some faults can be tricky to trace, so i have to have sympathy with the garage. it is certainly possible that by changing the timing chain they have saved you terrible engine damage, but again it is impossible to say for sure. can you check your invoice and advise which parts were changed and what the labour time was please? and if you want a second opinion...

 

[blondie01]

Hi Alex, the garage im using are very good & as you say it is hard to pinpoint an exact problem. They are being helpful in trying to rectify the problem, im just worried that they are going to ask us for more money the more things they try!

 

[Benz17]

Oh dear another one,, please read here,it will not help much but it shows the same problems as you are having
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=81518

Yes steam is coming out of my ears, by only reading about other people experiences regarding fault finding issues. I really feel for them. Sometimes you feel like banging your head against the brick wall.

 

[television]

Yes steam is coming out of my ears, by only reading about other people experiences regarding fault finding issues. I really feel for them. Sometimes you feel like banging your head against the brick wall.

This is a huge problem now days, a fitter or an engineer, there is a huge difference, and the same for mechanics or electronics.

Though myself I have always worked to component levels in electronics. I would look at something in another way, if it was something new that I had not seen or heard of before, I would treat the job as a learning curve, I might not have made any profit from the job, I could have learnt a lot, I would also know that the next one would return some profit.

 

[Alex Crow]

......I would treat the job as a learning curve, I might not have made any profit from the job, I could have learnt a lot, I would also know that the next one would return some profit.

interesting comment malcolm.

i have personally taken a loss on one or two jobs, and barely earnt at all on some others. my view is that my customers ought not to pay for my lack of knowledge or education - this however is not a common approach in the garage trade! i know plenty that will do whatever it takes to turn a profit out of any kind of dissaster, regardless of the morality of it, or even their reputation and chance of repeat business.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Perhaps a bit like developing any skill or product that you will use repeatedly in future - you have to accept that the first time will take longer, but that will help you understand the issue and subsequently you will be quicker and the product will be better.

As Alex said though, some providers seem determined to have the customer pay the development costs - with no guarantee of a satisfactory outcome.

Even more so, how many of us check that the provider carries any sort of indemnity insurance in case things go badly - or issues a disclaimer before launching into the unknown on a voyage of discovery at the customers expense?

 

[MissyD]

Welcome blondie01, wherebouts in Essex are you?

 

[blondie01]

Hi Sarah, im in Thurrock (near Lakeside!)

 

[Rory]

I can't imagine how a stretched timing chain would produce the symptoms described.

 

[television]

I can't imagine how a stretched timing chain would produce the symptoms described.

These engines only have a single chain and they can and do jump over the cam sprockets

 

[dieselman]

Welcome blondie01, wherebouts in Essex are you?

Hi Sarah, im in Thurrock (near Lakeside!)

Oh, Crickey...there's two of them now..

 

[MissyD]

Hi Sarah, im in Thurrock (near Lakeside!)

I know it well , sorry to hear your not having fun with your car, Im sure the guys on here can give you some good advice

 

[Alex M Grieve]

I know it well , sorry to hear your not having fun with your car, I'm sure the guys on here can give you some good advice

Sarah prefers a reliable Indy, apparently - distance no object.

 

[Rory]

These engines only have a single chain and they can and do jump over the cam sprockets

Sure - but that wouldn't account for the intermittant nature of the OP's problem.

It's only giving problems on a warm start. The rest of the time it runs fine.

 

[television]

Sure - but that wouldn't account for the intermittant nature of the OP's problem.

It's only giving problems on a warm start. The rest of the time it runs fine.

Yes sorry I had just been reading the other thread

 

[blondie01]

Well, ive just driven home from my mums & noticed the idle is not so smooth anymore-its bouncing slightly when stationary from 600 to 800 (weirdly only in Drive, not doing it when in Park?) and the dreaded engine light came back on when i drove onto my drive! The car also seems to be hesitating slightly when i come to a stop & have to pull away again-i feel im having to put my foot down harder on the accelerator than usual. Any ideas?

 

[Miffy]

Have you had your codes read off on Star?

 

[blondie01]

Hi Miffy,
I took the car back to the garage today, they changed the valve & also reset the engine manage light (was told it was still stating running rich-sorry i didnt get the code) they also upgraded a programme for the ECU? He told me the car is still hunting when started from warm exactly as before but did say it should clear after driving the car for a few hundred miles, as the car has adapted to driving when the timing chain had stretched & adapted accordingly, which did make some sense to me.
Ive bought the car home exactly as it was & hoping after a while it should correct itself. They did say if it doesnt or the light comes back on i should ring them & they will book into the workshop for further investigation.
Fingers crossed it will be ok soon :neutral: