W203 'timing chain' issues-help needed!

[television]

I didn't know that, its amazing though that companies don't stick with something that they know works, it can't all be down to cost, someone must know that its being down graded, perhaps their suffering from manager that don't listen, couldn't imagine that ever happening though?

The departments do talk to each other, only a couple of years back the ones that make the bodies had a load of spare rusty steel sheets left over, and they sold it off to the engine department to make timing chains

 

[MechPhil]

The Microsoft comparison got me thinking... I bought my first computer in 1988. The hardware was built like a brick s@*thouse! It was a really heavy solid thing. The harddrive still had to be "parked" before it coud be turned off and moved. The brackets inside the case were so strong, they looked like shipyard gantries. I'm pretty sure you could drop the thing from a 4th story window and it would be fine, provided the HDD was parked!

In engineering design at uni, you are taught to design things with a certain lifespan in mind. The required lifespan is determined by many variables including the one I think deserves a closer look in light of the previous paragraph.

The old computer was built so very tough, because it was the zenith of technology in 1988, and was expected to be competetive for about ten years, or even longer judging by the build quality. Then all of a sudden, computer technology started developing at such a shocking pace, and the old computer was a dinosaur by 1991. The 1991 pc was outdated by 1992, and the 1992 pc was sent packing by July 1992. At that point, I realised that cases, power supplies and even monitors and keyboards were becoming lighter and more and more flimsy.

The design brief had changed! In '88, manufacturers wanted the engineers to design components to last 15 years, but by 1998, the knew the technology will be redundant in mere months, so why build them to last years?

I think we're seeing the same thing in the motor industry. Look at the 126's. Absolute tanks! These things were built to do a million miles and be fine! Go even further back to the 114's. Same thing. These cars were tanks, built to last 40 years. Many 114's are still used as daily transport in SA. Back in the 70's when they were new, nobody thought of ABS, EBD, ASR, and whatever other acronymns we get these days.

These computer controlled gremlin nests that infest modern cars are improving at a rate that leaves me stunned. And once the newest on becomes available, the older ones are all redundant. So, if the stuff that allow Mr. Bean to drive like Michael Schumacher, and environment-preserving wizardry we design into cars today is redundant by next week, why design the car to last 20 years?

It is my opinion that cars in the early 80's were designed with an expected life of 20 years, and that cars designed now are expected to last only about 5... But I may be wrong. Just in case, I'll keep driving my old "redundant" 124 (or maybe I'll swop it for a well kept 123 280E), and see where it all ends!

 

[star]

Cars used to be designed by engineers, now they are designed by accountants! Took an old 107 rear panel off today, all held on by small countersunk chrome screws, not a plastic popper on sight the heater has metal actuating rods not like plastic items found in newer my models.

 

[Walenut]

It is my opinion that cars in the early 80's were designed with an expected life of 20 years, and that cars designed now are expected to last only about 5... But I may be wrong. Just in case, I'll keep driving my old "redundant" 124 (or maybe I'll swop it for a well kept 123 280E), and see where it all ends!

I have no problem with a car only lasting 5 years as long as it costs the same as a Nissan Micra, Mercedes caveat is that your buying a quality product.

 

[Walenut]

The departments do talk to each other, only a couple of years back the ones that make the bodies had a load of spare rusty steel sheets left over, and they sold it off to the engine department to make timing chains

And then they put one on my car.

 

[kingoolab]

Where to buy cam sprockets

W203 models with engine number starting in 271 all suffer from premature cam chain wear problem. It is not only my opinion, but that of all reputable MB technicians in my part of the world that this particular part of the 271 engine has not been developed to usually high MB standards. As an independent dealer, I try to avoid the 271 motor W203 models at all cost despite these models' popularity.

The cam chain on these model engines (271) is similar looking to a bicycle chain. It is thinner and lighter than most other engines of comparable capacity and output. Compared to the previous generation W203 Kompressor engine model 111, it makes the 271 chain look dwarfed. The 111 motor cam chain is a proper power transmission item that looks like two motorcycle drive chains stuck together. This is called a metric double roller chain. They outlast any other moving part of an internal combustion engine.

In the 271 MB engine however, the cam chain starts stretching from the day the engine is assembled in the factory. This is similar to any application of a light weight single roller transmission chain. With chain stretch/wear there is the accompanying wear on the chain sprockets. The sprockets suffering most in the 271 motor are the two small camshaft sprockets. Enough wear will eventually cause the chain to slip over the sprocket teeth causing cam timing issues and resultant bending of valves.

Early signs of this issue on the 271 motor W203 models is an engine management light coming on at times and later staying on. This will be accompanied with rough idle/running, loss of power and increased fuel economy.

Although this particular issue with the 271 engine is relatively easy to repair, it is extremely costly due to radically over priced parts required from MB agents. No pirate replacements parts are yet available.*

It is vital to successful repair to understand that all parts related to the cam chain in 271 motors require replacement. As a minimum requirement this involves the chain and two cam sprockets provided no valves have yet been bent.*

Typical cost in South-Africa = R25,000 - R35,000 (£2500 - £3500). This equates to approx one third to half of vehicle value.*

Expect this cam chain wear problem to manifest from 80,000kms in vehicles that were driven enthusiastically. Well maintained engines subjected to normal driving conditions last longer, but generally do no better than 140,000kms.*

Hello I am kingoolab from Mauritius.
I have a Mercedes C180 Year 2006 with engine code 271.
I have thesame symptoms as described (rough idle on start).
Can you please advise where i can buy the cam sprocket. I am looking for a shop that will ship to Mauritius.
Looking forward for your replies.
Thanks & regards

 

[Alex Crow]

.......I have thesame symptoms as described (rough idle on start).....

Hello kingaloob, and welcome.

Often the symptoms you describe can be caused by a simple pipe that splits - cheap to buy, and easy to replace.
What diagnosis have you had on the car?

 

[david arthur]

Hi Alex

Has the W211 E200 Kompressor got the same 271 engine with the single chain ? and if it has, what is the estimated mileage on that before problems arise.

 

[Alex Crow]

Hi Alex

Has the W211 E200 Kompressor got the same 271 engine with the single chain ? and if it has, what is the estimated mileage on that before problems arise.

Yes, same engine.

This is a very difficult one to advise on, there are many thousands of 271 engines on the road, and I expect the majority not to have problems, even approaching 200,000 miles.
To strip it down to have a look is not a quick job, so only usually done when a fault is suspected.

My best advise would have to be, always use top spec oil, and always always change it on time.
Beyond that, do not worry until a fault is suspected.

 

[david arthur]

Thanks Alex

Sorry for late reply, Internets been down care of Talk Talk, been round the world, different call centres to get it sorted. Anyway thanks for your reply,mines only done 34000 so hopefully a few years left before i have probs.

 

[2010golfnut]

my w203 was hunting @ idle when cold, had the butterfly valve in the throttle body cleaned, runs smooth as silk now. My engine still has (engine management) problems but at least it runs smooth now.
Did anyone know that a competent STAR operator can turn the EM light off on the earlier models

 

[Ather]

Hello, im new to the forum and i could do with a bit of advice please. I have a C180K auto 2004 (271 engine). A couple of weeks back the car would start normally when engine cold but i noticed that when i stopped & had to start the car for the 2nd time (ie popped to shops/put petrol in etc) it would hunt drastically from 500 to 1000 with a 'chuffing' sound for a short period (10 secs) then settle down & idle fine.When the car is idling its absolutely fine & it drives beautifully. If i leave the car for say an hour then start its fine but turn off & start again and does the hunting thing again. The engine light came on so took to my local independent Mercedes specialist who initally thought might be the breather hose split but tested & no air leaks found. The technician advised he thought it was the timing chain stretched which they stated is very rare. They ordered part & booked me on for the following week. (in the meantime i searched on here for timing chain stretch & noticed there may be a potential prob with timing chain on the 271 engine so accepted what they said).
Car was with them for a week, husband picked up the car, paid £700 & bought it home-engine light came back on. I started the engine a couple of times & the light went out so i presumed it may be the computer adjusting itself. For a week the car was fine, didnt do the hunting thing & i was very pleased. Then on thurs, the hunting problem on 2nd start up started again & its worse than before although no engine light on. I took the car back to the garage yesterday, they popped it on star & said they couldnt see any faults except its running a bit rich & he has ordered a part (i think it was an air recirc valve?) & i am to go back to have it fitted tuesday. On the way home engine light reappeared but it has since gone off.
Now, im a bit concerned as we have paid £700 & the car is exactly the same as before it went in for repairs. This makes me think, was the fault actually the timing chain at all? The garage im using have got a very good reputation. Would i be expected to pay for any extra work they have to do to solve this problem even though i have already paid to 'fix' it?

Has anyone experienced this start up hunting problem or can point me in the direction of what you might think it is?
Sorry for long post!! :Oops:

Hi, I think you need to change the whole camshaft adjuster gears sprockets, tensioner and timing chain itself. I had to get the whole done job done on my car. The timing chain was jumping because of sprockets. You can find the whole kit very cheap online on ebay at the following link.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-...ressor&hash=item28413f6bc3:g:pQUAAOSwA2hZxETl