Can my E320cdi run as well without swirl flaps?

[dieseljock]

Hello all,
This is my first time posting on the forum, but I have been pulling bits and bobs from it for some and have found some seriously useful threads from other members regarding the typical problems caused by the EGR system on the 320cdi's. mine has done 135k miles and runs well, but smokes considerably on acceleration under load in the higher gears. I've had a wee poke around and have noticed that the connecting rod from the actuating motor to the swirl flap pivots has come off, and there is no movement possible in the swirl flap mechanisms. I am working under the assumption that the EGR has nicely gummed up the flaps along with everything else in the inlet manifold, and I'm planning to remove it and clean it up along with the EGR pipework. I'm also going to install the shunt posted by Dieselman to stop the EGR doing the same again. My question is this- Has anyone tried simply removing the swirl flaps? What would be the result? I'm anticipating that they're going to be pretty messy/seized, and I know that people with bmw diesels commonly do away with theirs to avoid engine damage when they fall off and get sucked into the engine..They tend to report either improved performance/economy(if the flaps were jammed shut I guess) or no loss of performance and economy and more peace of mind! Would taking them out cause an engine management fault code or reduced fuel economy? I'm assuming there must be a reason as people have posted about getting new manifolds when they snap one off trying to clean it. Any advice would be most welcome before i tackle the wee buggers!

 

[stumo]

I'd be interested to know too, would be a lot cheaper than replacing the whole manifold.

Couldn't you just try and jam the flaps open since they've disconnected now anyway? That will tell you before hand what is likely to happen if they are permanently removed.

 

[Varco]

Swirl flaps are used to change the way the air moves inside the cylinder, so it mixes more efficiently with the fuel being injected, they do this by partially/fully blocking one of the two intake ports going to each cylinder. The flaps are typically closed at lower engine speeds where airflows are lower anyway, so that the throttling losses are minimized. The reason for all this complexity is to reduce smoke - particularly at lower rpms and high loads.

So... The BMW owners you report are probably seeing marginally better fuel economy and performance through less pumping work. But at the expense of higher smoke - this may seem like a reasonable trade-off to a human being, however the 'higher' life forms who set emissions legislation don't see life this way This of course only works if you don't have a particulate trap. A trap will fill up more quickly and the fuel economy be wasted in more regular regenerations...

In your case, you may well be correct that the swirl flaps have 'gummed' up which could explain (possibly along with EGR problems) the smoky running of your car. You should see an improvement in 'smokyness' if you can get them working again and, assuming you are not 'blessed' with a particulate trap, you may get an improvement in fuel economy by removing them altogether. I don't know about the practicalities of removing them, including the risk of warning lights, but assume someone on here will...

 

[BarryF]

Mine just failed and I had the manifold replaced. Not a cheap option at around £800.
Barry

 

[mersum1es]

They can be removed (holes of the turning axels must be plugged). Torque motor that engages flaps, must be functional.

But if your EGR has caused the jamming, probably your intake manifold is quite full of dirt. So, you have to clean the manifold. I don't know dieselmans instructions about EGR, but it can be shut off (or reduced) simply with programming.

 

[dieseljock]

I didn't realise the EGR could be shut off with programming alone-is that something the average re-mapping outfit would be able to handle?
And as for the swirl flaps, i think i'll see what state they're in when i strip down the manifold.. If they're in too bad a state i'll take them out and plug the spindle holes.. If they're not too bad, I'll clean them then run with them in the open position for a while then reconnect them and see what if any difference they make. Thanks for the posts everyone, i'll let you know how i got on once i'm finished..

 

[undeckedhomer]

mine had come off took it to a indie who couldt fix it so me and a freind did it in 5 hours full strip down egr removed cleaned manifold soaked in parrifin cleaned out flaps cleaned reconected and all works well so be brave strip it and clean it 5 hours to do

 

[Bolide]

I removed the swirl flaps in my BMW E39 525D Auto Touring. Contrary to what I had been led to expect there was no apparent change in part-throttle behaviour

I cleaned the EGR and inlet manifold while I was at it. The result for my next trip (to the Kent coast) was 48 mpg cruising at 80 mph. I suspect the mpg gains are due to cleaning the inlet system, not removing the swirl flaps

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[dieseljock]

Well, just to update, I removed the inlet manifold and found exactly what I expected- a huge build up of soot and oil mixture in the inlets, completely gumming up the jammed and closed swirl flaps, and a full 20mm deep inside the EGR manifold. The EGR valve was also completely sooted up. I can't believe the car was running at all, let alone as reasonably as it was. While I had the car Jacked up, I did a transmission fluid change and got 7 litres of ATF fluid out that looked like bust engine oil..The whole lot took about 12 hours, including 3 hours of cleaning the manifold in a tray of diesel with a power drill, a plumbers pipe bending spring and a rag tied to the end( worked a treat!).I decided to keep the swirl flaps as they moved well once I'd gotten rid of all the gunk jamming them. I also changed the fuel filter. When I first started the engine, there was a quite a lot of steam in the exhaust gas, which I took to be the extra condensation from the newly bare metal inside the manifold..out on the road, it feels like a completely different car.. Silky smooth gear changes, a huge increase in power, pick up, better fuel economy and much smoother running. The car had also been starting in limp mode when cold, then running normally once I'd stopped then restarted the engine once it had warmed up. A new MAF (£55 from merc.edinburgh) sorted that out, and an hour with the battery disconnected reset the fuel trims on the ecu. The car now feels and runs like new.. All I need to do now is the rear sub frame bushes and put in an EGR shunt to stop it all happening again! Oh yeah, and stay one step ahead of the rust! MPG for those interested is now (brim to brim) about 43 MPG combined out of a tank, of 70% motorway and 30% town driving. I reckon I could have done better than that but I was enjoying playing with my new performance too much! Thanks for all the input..

 

[dieseljock]

Just a wee aside-I found out later that my ECU reset was not ideal- windows not opening/closing etc..I hadn't done one on a mercedes before, but having sussed out that not everything was hunky-dory, i googled procedure and found the right sequence on another forum... Might well come in handy for someone, it certainly saved me a lot of head scratching and debunked a few of the theories I'd read about length of time battery is disconnected etc. This worked well for my car, sorted out the windows, and I could really notice the performance characteristics and throttle position response changing as the ECU relearned.. Anyway, here it is..

1. Make sure your steering wheel is not turned to either side.
2. Make sure your windows are all the way up
3. Make sure your sun roof is completely closed
4. make sure your parking brake is released
6. Turn off your stereo.
7. Make sure you have your stereo's Anti-theft code
8. Turn off your heat/AC blower
9. Turn off your lights
10. Make sure your door are UNLOCKED.
11. READ THE WHOLE PROCEDURE BEFORE GETTING STARTED

Reset Steps:
Open your trunk and disconnect the negative side of your battery, wait 30 seconds and re-connect it back.

Post-Rest Steps

Turn the key to position 2 (DO NOT START YOUR ENGINE)

1. Reseting your windows: You only have ONE shot at this so you must not screw up. Bring down both windows at the same time by holding the switches just before the click that brings them down automatically. Once both windows are all the way down make both swithches click by pressing them all the way down. This lets the ECU learn that that is the end of the window track and it records it in memory. Do the same closing the windows by holding both switches and making them click once the windows are all the way up.

2. Turn on your blower and make both sides go to 72 deg. by pressing both up and down buttons at the same time. This will calibrate the ECU

3. Turn on your stereo and enter you stero code. if you dont have it, you can forget about listening to the radio.

4. pull the sun roof all the way back and all the way forward then up and then down.

6. Turn all you lights on and off, including your fog lights

7. Turn the key back to position 0.

8. Turn on your engine. You will get 2 malfunctions, your ABS and ESP systems must be calibrated.

9. Calibrate your ABS and ESP systems by turning the steering wheel all the way to your RIGHT and then all the way to your LEFT. then bring it back to the middle. Notice the two yellow lights dissapear from your dashboard.

10. Let your car run in idle for about 5 minutes and then take it for a spin. Remember your ECU is still getting all the readings from all the sensors on your car so drive slowly first then faster... and so on.. you are basically teaching your ECU how to handle your car.

The only thing I can add to this is that if you have comand fitted, on a W210, you don't need your radio code.. I asked a mechanic at mercedes and can verify it by my own experience. It took me two disconnects to get my windows right, but the car is definitely happier now!

 

[K1100]

How difficult is it to remove the inlet manifold? I am envious of you getting 40 mpg plus. I have managed to creep up to 37 mpg on a long steady 70 motorway journey so I am guessing that at 120,000 miles I might benefit from the same clean-out that you have done. How much has to come off? And did you do it all from above the engine or is it necessary to work underneath? I filled up today for the first time .... £82.

 

[dieseljock]

Aye, you should be getting better than that I reckon..
It's seriously fiddly getting to some of the manifold bolts on the bulkhead end of the engine, and you have to access the bolts which hold on the pipe from the intercooler from underneath, but once that pipe has been removed, you can access the awkward bolts on the lower side of the manifold inlets. I removed the EGR cooler and valve with the manifold and stripped it once I had the inlet manifold off. You definitely need to work from underneath, but I'd say the job isn't hugely technical, it just takes a while. You'll need to disconnect a few electrical connections to remove the inlet manifold, but they're all easy to keep track of. You'll need to remove the fuel filter, but I just removed the line from the fuel rail and the one to the fuel pump, and had enough movement in the lines still connected to just move the filter housing out of the way when required.. I experimented with acid alloy wheel cleaner and strong detergents, but good old diesel was by far and away the best thing for dissolving the soot/oil mixture built up in the manifold.As well as the drill/pipe bending spring/rag combo i mentioned , i also found plastic kitchen dish washing brushes cunningly reshaped with the aid of a blowlamp very handy for cleaning the EGR manifold.. I didn't have a decent steam cleaner/pressure washer handy it has to be said so that might be an easier way, but I think a soak in diesel first wouldn't hurt. You'll be able to see as soon as your engine cover is off whether your swirl flaps are still moving or connected. If they're not, you can forge ahead safe in the knowledge that what you're doing will make a big difference to how your car is running. I'd also say that if you're going to go to the bother of jacking the car up, if it hasn't already been done, an ATF change will take you 45 mins, cost you about £70 in oil/parts and will vastly improve your gear changes and the life expectancy of your gearbox. The oil in mine was in pretty poor nick.. I reckon, from start to finish, including cleaning and tea breaks, you're looking at 8-10 hours.. No doubt there as whizz kids out there who could do it faster than that, but I've got hands like shovels and some of those bolts are wee buggers! you'll need a small flexi link for your torx sockets and a short and a long extension bar to reach some of the more difficult bolts..I'd say this problem will probably have consigned a fair few of the older diesel W210's to the scrappy- it's a shame, mine feels like a new car now, I didn't realise how far I was from optimum performance until I'd done the work, and I never expected it to make such a big difference. Anyway, I'd check your swirl flaps first, that might give you a good idea of whether there is a big build up of gunk or not.

 

[Djadamski]

Hi guys your opinions and advise are very appreciate and I like the while story about this as I have simillar problem actuallh same but still having issues as had them before doing swirl flaps and manifold.

I have youtube chanell and videos that explain everything.

But flaps was fixed where actuator leaver was broken but fixed by my lovely friends garage, also these flaps was in working order but was wobbly as you can see on video I wilm put links to them below.

My car had more performance smother run and more mpg in combined city - motorways with 100 miles done max, and not driving like old grandpa but nice and smooth giving 39-40mpg , motorway only London - Cardiff 163 miles 53mpg

Mercedes E220 2.2cdi 2001.08 Elegance.

Coming to the point where car running nice and smoth except when cold is shaking and shudder on idle and when choose all gears P R N D but when is warm up a bit only shaking and shudder on R and D , Neutral and Parking is ok.
Also I have noticed when pump up the pedal the shaking stops but for 20 seconds and coming back.

There is no trouble codes at all but there is vacum leak by these glaps being loose is this a problem? Someone advis eme rail presure sensor or even regulator as well, what do you think?

Please guys help me.

Links to my videos.

- manifold taken out

- manifold fixed and cleaned

- breake pedal solution for not shaking.

Please help thank you.