Have mercs not got traction control to stop wheel spin?

[Rotorhead500]

Doh!

Well.... it should stop nicely!

 

[Scoob]

Well, the front end will stop, not sure what that back will do...

Scoob.

 

[Philedge]

Well, the front end will stop, not sure what that back will do...

Scoob.

Cushion the front from the obstacle ahead!!!

 

[range rover]

+1. Any snow on the roads and I leave the "good" cars at home and take the Hilux 4x4 pickup. That will go anywhere!

Don't be too confident with the 4x4,a Discovery went through the hedge last night not far from here, sort of proves what I was told about 4x4's , loose it and you really have lost it as far as control is concerned. After all if the road is like a skating rink nothing will grip unless chains or better still Caterpillar tracks.
For those who are deriding MB for grip, what is the most popular make of taxi in Germany Switzerland or Austria ? Makes a very good case for winter or snow tyres methinks

 

[EmilysDad]

I'm going back a bit now .... 25+ yrs, but in Oslo or Helsinki (can't remember now - it was 25+ yrs ago ) everyone used studded tyres. They made a right racket on the road! Not sure how legal they are anywhere now these days though.

 

[John Laidlaw]

Don't be too confident with the 4x4,a Discovery went through the hedge last night not far from here, sort of proves what I was told about 4x4's , loose it and you really have lost it as far as control is concerned. After all if the road is like a skating rink nothing will grip unless chains or better still Caterpillar tracks.
For those who are deriding MB for grip, what is the most popular make of taxi in Germany Switzerland or Austria ? Makes a very good case for winter or snow tyres methinks

and Norway.....

 

[Ricardo_e220]

I'm going back a bit now .... 25+ yrs, but in Oslo or Helsinki (can't remember now - it was 25+ yrs ago ) everyone used studded tyres. They made a right racket on the road! Not sure how legal they are anywhere now these days though.

I think the Scandinavian countries still do, french alps you can use them for a certain number of the winter months, but only up to a certain speed and not on the motorway.

Tyres are now huge compared even to when I stared driving in '91.. My early cars had 145/13 tyres.. With fwd they went anywhere.. My 1st rwd car taught me a thing or two about grip, handling and poor conditions.!

 

[Peter G]

Don't be too confident with the 4x4,a Discovery went through the hedge last night not far from here, sort of proves what I was told about 4x4's , loose it and you really have lost it as far as control is concerned. After all if the road is like a skating rink nothing will grip unless chains or better still Caterpillar tracks.
For those who are deriding MB for grip, what is the most popular make of taxi in Germany Switzerland or Austria ? Makes a very good case for winter or snow tyres methinks

You're right of course, if the road is a sheet ice a 4x4 is in trouble, but then so is every other vehicle that doesn't have studs, which, I'm guessing, is every other vehicle!

When it comes to tyres, I don't have winter ones. I prefer my 31x10.5x15 Grabber AT2s -

 

[EmilysDad]

......
Tyres are now huge compared even to when I stared driving in '91.. My early cars had 145/13 tyres.. With fwd they went anywhere.. My 1st rwd car taught me a thing or two about grip, handling and poor conditions.!

Most cars were still RWD even when I started driving in 79 ........... how old do I feel?

 

[MBDevotee]

You're right of course, if the road is a sheet ice a 4x4 is in trouble, but then so is every other vehicle that doesn't have studs, which, I'm guessing, is every other vehicle!

When it comes to tyres, I don't have winter ones. I prefer my 31x10.5x15 Grabber AT2s -

+1 for Grabbers - I use the Grabber GT's on the ML and it copes beautifully in snow.

But yes, with a 4x4 when it slides you've completely lost grip and are bu66ered really!

 

[Ecab14]

Can't the Tcontrol be s/w off?

 

[Jethro UK]

I learned physics at school in the 70s and from this I can conclude these irrefutable FACTS!!!!!!

FACT 1/ Fat DRIVE tyres gives MORE traction not less! (so those that conclude otherwise simply dont know physics) - i dont even need to drive any car in any condition to KNOW that as A FACT - but they also create more DRAG (for exactly the same physical reasons) making idle tyres (in MB case the fronts) very difficult to push through snow if they do not drive (probably where some of the guys dizzy logic stems from)

FACT 2/ Similarly Lower pressures (softer) DRIVE tyres give MORE traction but likewise they also create more DRAG on the idle tyres (again making it difficult to push through snow)

= Optimum traction is Wide/Low pressures drive tyre (for traction) and high pressure narrower idle tyres to reduce drag

I dont need to actually do any of this to KNOW it FOR FACT

Of course I will not take seriously any challenges to the laws of physics

There is no reason why Mercedes Benz should spin drive wheels in the snow - it can very easily be controlled and has been since the 60's (then called 'limited slip differential' - MB just haven't bothered to do it

Enjoying the Merc but I do not owe them anything to lie about a deficiency and blame Merc Drivers for being incompetant

 

[mikestrivens]

No amount of technology will protect stupid people from the laws of physics. Snow and ice completely change the rules and all the traditional laws are irrelevant or rather different.

 

[mks2005]

Have owned quite a few rwd cars over the years.. Toyota Supas, Mx5s, Nissan 200sx and so on.. none have been any good in the snow and none of them had traction control. Some low power font wheel drive cars I have had have been very good in the snow.. best my an old Hyundai Accent 1.3i.. also had a Mitsubishi evo 1 that was really good in the snow well until you hit the brakes and the abs freaked out haha..


My MX5 hated the snow..




An LSD will not really help that much in the snow as the wheels will not be able to get traction anyway..

 

[anyweb]

I'm going back a bit now .... 25+ yrs, but in Oslo or Helsinki (can't remember now - it was 25+ yrs ago ) everyone used studded tyres. They made a right racket on the road! Not sure how legal they are anywhere now these days though.

they are legal here in Sweden (except in certain streets in certain cities) and I have them on my cars right now, they are called Dubbed däck's here, they are very useful when the snow melts and then refreezes, but they cost more to buy than standard winter tires,

in Sweden, if there's snow outside you must by law drive with the appropriate tires (summer tires would not be legal), see below

Between 1 December and 31 March are required by law to use winter tires if it's winter roads out there.

It's winter conditions if there is snow, ice, slush or frost on any part of the roadway. Keep in mind that even roadside counts to the roadway.

Studded snow tires may be used between the 1 October and 15 April.

Studded tires after 15 April
It is legal to drive with studded tires after 15 April and before 1 October if there is or is likely to become winter conditions.

Studded or friction tires
With winter tires meant studded tires or so-called non-studded friction tires. It may not be present in both studded and non-studded tires on the same vehicle. Note that it is permissible to use non-studded friction tires all year round, there is no restriction against them.

 

[MBDevotee]

I learned physics at school in the 70s and from this I can conclude these irrefutable FACTS!!!!!!

FACT 1/ Fat DRIVE tyres gives MORE traction not less! (so those that conclude otherwise simply dont know physics) - i dont even need to drive any car in any condition to KNOW that as A FACT - but they also create more DRAG (for exactly the same physical reasons) making idle tyres (in MB case the fronts) very difficult to push through snow if they do not drive (probably where some of the guys dizzy logic stems from)

FACT 2/ Similarly Lower pressures (softer) DRIVE tyres give MORE traction but likewise they also create more DRAG on the idle tyres (again making it difficult to push through snow)

= Optimum traction is Wide/Low pressures drive tyre (for traction) and high pressure narrower idle tyres to reduce drag

I dont need to actually do any of this to KNOW it FOR FACT

Of course I will not take seriously any challenges to the laws of physics

There is no reason why Mercedes Benz should spin drive wheels in the snow - it can very easily be controlled and has been since the 60's (then called 'limited slip differential' - MB just haven't bothered to do it

Enjoying the Merc but I do not owe them anything to lie about a deficiency and blame Merc Drivers for being incompetant

BUT....

Fat low profile tyres often do not have a tread pattern conducive to driving on snow or ice, whereas snow / winter tyres do.

I have driven several cars on snow, and have to conclude that winter tyres make an amazing difference - yes FWD is better than RWD but not as good as 4wd for getting the car going, but even 4wd on the wrong tyres is rubbish at making it stop and corner.

Ideal is 4wd on winter tyres.

 

[Uncle]

Ahem.........

I learned physics at school in the 70s and from this I can conclude these irrefutable FACTS!!!!!!
I also did Physics at school in the 70's and passed my driving test in 1976 and through lots of practice I learned how to drive a RWD car without LSD in all conditions that the UK had to offer - Funnily enough my knowledge of Physics didn't help me then as its not helping you now

FACT 1/ Fat DRIVE tyres gives MORE traction not less! (so those that conclude otherwise simply dont know physics) - i dont even need to drive any car in any condition to KNOW that as A FACT - but they also create more DRAG (for exactly the same physical reasons) making idle tyres (in MB case the fronts) very difficult to push through snow if they do not drive (probably where some of the guys dizzy logic stems from)

For Physics to work you have to compare all elements before drawing any conclusions ie:what works best on dry tarmac isn't necessarily the best in water snow or ice or sand ect.. and of course snow can be at least three of these things.

FACT 2/ Similarly Lower pressures (softer) DRIVE tyres give MORE traction but likewise they also create more DRAG on the idle tyres (again making it difficult to push OR DRAG through snow)

= Optimum traction is Wide/Low pressures drive tyre (for traction) and high pressure narrower idle tyres to reduce drag

I dont need to actually do any of this to KNOW it FOR FACT

Except on snow it just gets compacted into ice. A skinny tyre will cut through more snow potentially allowing contact with the tarmac underneath

Of course I will not take seriously any challenges to the laws of physics
I doubt that many laws can be summed up in one sentence (as always "The devil is in the detail" alas you have omitted many detail

There is no reason why Mercedes Benz should spin drive wheels in the snow - it can very easily be controlled and has been since the 60's (then called 'limited slip differential' - MB just haven't bothered to do it

Very few cars had LSD in the 60's or 70's although most were RWD oh FACT!!!!! btw

Enjoying the Merc but I do not owe them anything to lie about a deficiency and blame Merc Drivers for being incompetent

 

[drmw]

I learned physics at school in the 70s and from this I can conclude these irrefutable FACTS!!!!!!

FACT 1/ Fat DRIVE tyres gives MORE traction not less! (so those that conclude otherwise simply dont know physics) - i dont even need to drive any car in any condition to KNOW that as A FACT - but they also create more DRAG (for exactly the same physical reasons) making idle tyres (in MB case the fronts) very difficult to push through snow if they do not drive (probably where some of the guys dizzy logic stems from)

FACT 2/ Similarly Lower pressures (softer) DRIVE tyres give MORE traction but likewise they also create more DRAG on the idle tyres (again making it difficult to push through snow)

= Optimum traction is Wide/Low pressures drive tyre (for traction) and high pressure narrower idle tyres to reduce drag

I dont need to actually do any of this to KNOW it FOR FACT

Of course I will not take seriously any challenges to the laws of physics

There is no reason why Mercedes Benz should spin drive wheels in the snow - it can very easily be controlled and has been since the 60's (then called 'limited slip differential' - MB just haven't bothered to do it

Enjoying the Merc but I do not owe them anything to lie about a deficiency and blame Merc Drivers for being incompetant

It's evident your schooling didn't cover the fundamentals of a limited slip differential. An LSD does not prevent wheelspin by some magical process, it simply ensures power is always supplied to both wheels. So with a heavy right foot, rather than spin one wheel and go nowhere, you would simply spin both - and still go nowhere.

 

[Wirral_guy]

I learned physics at school in the 70s and from this I can conclude these irrefutable FACTS!!!!!!

FACT 1/ Fat DRIVE tyres gives MORE traction not less! (so those that conclude otherwise simply dont know physics) - i dont even need to drive any car in any condition to KNOW that as A FACT - but they also create more DRAG (for exactly the same physical reasons) making idle tyres (in MB case the fronts) very difficult to push through snow if they do not drive (probably where some of the guys dizzy logic stems from)

FACT 2/ Similarly Lower pressures (softer) DRIVE tyres give MORE traction but likewise they also create more DRAG on the idle tyres (again making it difficult to push through snow)

= Optimum traction is Wide/Low pressures drive tyre (for traction) and high pressure narrower idle tyres to reduce drag

I dont need to actually do any of this to KNOW it FOR FACT

Of course I will not take seriously any challenges to the laws of physics

There is no reason why Mercedes Benz should spin drive wheels in the snow - it can very easily be controlled and has been since the 60's (then called 'limited slip differential' - MB just haven't bothered to do it

Enjoying the Merc but I do not owe them anything to lie about a deficiency and blame Merc Drivers for being incompetant

This ignores the main reason why skinny tyres work better. Yes, bigger tyres = better traction in normal conditions BUT snow isn't a normal condition and the bigger the tyre the worse off you are. They will sit on top of the snow\ice and give no grip, just spin on the tractionless surface. Skinny tyres tend to cut through the snow\ice to the grippier surface underneath, just like a sharper knife cuts better than a dull one - tadaa!, they work better in snow and ice! Physics isn't always your friend!

As for the original complaint you are right, MBs and other modern rear wheel drive cars aren't the best in snow. They tend to be torque'y diesels with big tyres (see above) and automatic which requires very gentle coaxing, and a very light right foot, to move in snow. Winter tyres help a lot
but won't solve all problems. Lastly, if on ice, I don't care what you have - no traction is no traction and nothing is going to make you move. The wheels spinning is purely a side-effect of this and no technology will help you!

Dave
Dave

 

[Rotorhead500]

I think a couple of guys have covered it, but no mention of the physics that cover ground pressure footprint Jethro?