MANDATORY RECALL: Software update for your diesel engine

[Tony Dyson]

We can just install a cheat device. Seems acceptable.

The current recall with list of vehicles affected:
https://www.daimler.com/innovation/diesel/recall-faq.html
The DVLA request for the same in the UK
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/merce...issue-uk-recall-over-emissions-defeat-devices

It would appear you don't read your own posts as well as responding to those of others you consider TLDR

 

[Tony Dyson]

Hi

The wording on my letter from MB reads as follows:

"At the request of the German Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA), we will be updating the engine control unit software of various diesel cars with the Euro 6 emissions standard as part of a mandatory recall."

So, two points to note:

1) My ML250 is of a sufficient age that it needs to be updated to comply with Euro 6, where it was previously compliant with Euro 5

2) The letter says that the recall is mandatory. The implication is that, irrespective of safety, MOT tests and garage audits will fail if the update is not carried out. Therefore even if I try to ignore the letter and refuse the mandate, the chances are that the update may well be added without my knowledge during a future service.

I don't mind the update. We can argue all day that "the drop in performance results in higher fuel consumption and ultimately more pollution..." etc etc but at the end of the day, the law is the law.

What I do mind is Mercedes tryng to claw back from us, the money that they otherwise would have made through lying about the emmission levels. I can imagine MB dealers coming under pressure to perform extras such as "health checks" where they can find some money to make on tyres etc. Even worse, if a car goes in for a recall and a "coincidental fault" shows up that is apparently not related to the reason for the recall - then unless I can prove it is related to the recall, then I the customer will end up paying for the conicident fault.

Maybe I am doing MB a dis-service because I have become cyncial in my old age. But at the moment I am feeling really miffed with Mercedes because I was forced to change the NOX sensors 4 months ago at a huge cost and now I may be asked to change a throttle valve at some unknown cost.

I had 3 Honda CR-Vs and never had reliability issues on this scale. I would have stuck with Honda if they didn't shrink the engine size from 2L to 1.6L, for a CR-V.

I like the Mercedes. It drives beautifully. But it is expensive to own.

David

The KBA have no jurisdiction in the UK, this is possibly why the DVSA have requested the same from MBUK, I am convinced the campaign is currently optional in the UK. This is the very first I have heard of a software update upgrading a Euro 5 to a Euro 6 standard, did you read this or is it an assumption? wouldn't you need an AdBlu installation as well for Euro 6?

 

[LostKiwi]

The current recall with list of vehicles affected:
https://www.daimler.com/innovation/diesel/recall-faq.html
The DVLA request for the same in the UK
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/merce...issue-uk-recall-over-emissions-defeat-devices

It would appear you don't read your own posts as well as responding to those of others you consider TLDR

And as I thought you didn't read it properly:
"Information on the recall of specific variants of the GLK 220 CDI 4MATIC with the Euro 5 emissions standard, which was ordered in June 2019, can be found here"

Following the link takes you here:
https://www.daimler.com/innovation/diesel/kba-bescheid.html

This deals with Euro 5 vehicles in addition to Euro 6 and indicates the correction of illegal vehicles is continuing with at least some earlier vehicles that were certified under Euro 5, therefore this does not apply solely to Euro 6b vehicles.

;TBCBA.

 

[LostKiwi]

You may also want to note this page:
https://www.daimler.com/innovation/antriebe/diesel/rueckruf-vans.html

Specifically:
"
As reported , the German Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA) sent a notice of recall to certain Mercedes-Benz vehicles with OM651 diesel engines meeting the Euro 5 emissions standard (N1 & M1 certification) for Europe on October 11, 2019. The KBA considers the effect of specific calibrations in the vehicle's engine control software to be inadmissible.
.
.
.
This clarification process with the KBA with regard to the functionalities of the engine control in diesel vehicles from Mercedes-Benz is well advanced from the company's perspective, but has not yet been completed. We assume that the KBA will issue further recall orders.

Update January 2020"

A simple example showing how diesels have advantageous laws applied compared to petrol (for the benefit of diesel vehicle manufacturers)
Euro 3 NOx limit for petrol: 0.15 g/km
Euro 5 NOx limit for petrol: 0.06 g/km
Euro 5 NOx limit for diesel: 0.18 g/km
Euro 6 NOx limit for diesel: 0.08 g/km


In real world testing Euro 5 and 6 limits have been consistently broken by most diesel manufacturers.

It's about time limits were set irrespective of fuel type to level the playing field and taxation was not based on CO2 only.

Europe has 70% of the diesel market globally because these unequal regulatory and tax systems exist.

 

[Tony Dyson]

And as I thought you didn't read it properly:
"Information on the recall of specific variants of the GLK 220 CDI 4MATIC with the Euro 5 emissions standard, which was ordered in June 2019, can be found here"

Following the link takes you here:
https://www.daimler.com/innovation/diesel/kba-bescheid.html

This deals with Euro 5 vehicles in addition to Euro 6 and indicates the correction of illegal vehicles is continuing with at least some earlier vehicles that were certified under Euro 5, therefore this does not apply solely to Euro 6b vehicles.

;TBCBA.

You may also want to note this page:
https://www.daimler.com/innovation/antriebe/diesel/rueckruf-vans.html

Specifically:
"
As reported , the German Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA) sent a notice of recall to certain Mercedes-Benz vehicles with OM651 diesel engines meeting the Euro 5 emissions standard (N1 & M1 certification) for Europe on October 11, 2019. The KBA considers the effect of specific calibrations in the vehicle's engine control software to be inadmissible.
.
.
.
This clarification process with the KBA with regard to the functionalities of the engine control in diesel vehicles from Mercedes-Benz is well advanced from the company's perspective, but has not yet been completed. We assume that the KBA will issue further recall orders.

Here we go round again in the same old circles, all these articles and discussions have been spoken of before, on this and other threads, but separating the wheat from the chaff, here in the UK the DVSA has requested MB to issue a recall of all vehicles affected with the 'Defeat Device', which is identified solely on Euro 6b vehicles. This does not include me. The KBA have no jurisdiction in the UK and unless it is required by DVSA in the UK I personally aren't interested in what MB do in the rest of the world.
I've no doubt there will be future updates in the UK and I welcome any modifications that are intended to provide benefit and/or improvement, but unless I start to get more honesty and sense of responsibility from MB and where I have a choice, I will continue to exercise my rights and make those choices.

 

[LostKiwi]

Here we go round again in the same old circles, all these articles and discussions have been spoken of before, on this and other threads, but separating the wheat from the chaff, here in the UK the DVSA has requested MB to issue a recall of all vehicles affected with the 'Defeat Device', which is identified solely on Euro 6b vehicles. This does not include me. The KBA have no jurisdiction in the UK and unless it is required by DVSA in the UK I personally aren't interested in what MB do in the rest of the world.
I've no doubt there will be future updates in the UK and I welcome any modifications that are intended to provide benefit and/or improvement, but unless I start to get more honesty and sense of responsibility from MB and where I have a choice, I will continue to exercise my rights and make those choices.

Yes same old circle.
Same irresponsible attitude to reducing emissions.
The update reduces NOx by 25-30% which still makes them worse than the limits for petrol and only improves an EU5 to be slightly better than a 20 year old petrol car (assuming real world results are in line with the tests).
For 30 years this idiocy of diesel use in passenger vehicles has been promoted by governments. It's about time it ended.

 

[Tony Dyson]

Yes same old circle.
Same irresponsible attitude to reducing emissions.
The update reduces NOx by 25-30% which still makes them worse than the limits for petrol and only improves an EU5 to be slightly better than a 20 year old petrol car (assuming real world results are in line with the tests).
For 30 years this idiocy of diesel use in passenger vehicles has been promoted by governments. It's about time it ended.

“The update reduces NOx by 25-30%” really? Then someone’s telling more lies because MB say different, no changes to the stated emissions.
And there you go again with yet more assumptions, never let facts get in the way of personal opinion eeh? you should really ty to stop doing this.

You’re wasting your time attempting to persuade law abiding UK DERV motorists to conform to German or US legislation, we have our own Governing body and to Date, the update for the Euro 6b recall has been requested by the DVSA, nothing else!

It’s the DVSA you need to address with your Anti-Diesel campaign, not the end users in an internet forum. And it hasn’t gone unnoticed that while on the surface you appear to be more concerned about HC, NOx and Particulate emissions, the extortionate taxes you pay to keep your vehicles legal is a small price to pay for the rising temperatures and sea levels worldwide, you cannot just ignore the CO² emissions of your oversized polluting engines just because you choose to, I should be very careful adopting the high ground on that one.

 

[LostKiwi]

“The update reduces NOx by 25-30%” really? Then someone’s telling more lies because MB say different, no changes to the stated emissions.
And there you go again with yet more assumptions, never let facts get in the way of personal opinion eeh? you should really ty to stop doing this.

You’re wasting your time attempting to persuade law abiding UK DERV motorists to conform to German or US legislation, we have our own Governing body and to Date, the update for the Euro 6b recall has been requested by the DVSA, nothing else!

It’s the DVSA you need to address with your Anti-Diesel campaign, not the end users in an internet forum. And it hasn’t gone unnoticed that while on the surface you appear to be more concerned about HC, NOx and Particulate emissions, the extortionate taxes you pay to keep your vehicles legal is a small price to pay for the rising temperatures and sea levels worldwide, you cannot just ignore the CO² emissions of your oversized polluting engines just because you choose to, I should be very careful adopting the high ground on that one.

You seem to forget the V8s are rarely used or is that just another inconvenient fact for you.
I commute 84 miles per day. 2 of that is walking, 74 of it is by electric vehicle, 8 of it is petrol. Normally none of those petrol miles involve a V8.
My normal commuting car until 18 months ago was a whopping great oversized 700cc. You'll note I own 4 cars. Each for a specific reason, use profile or purpose. That way I tailor my transport to my requirements.

Now, about the updates. If you spent as much time researching your facts as you do trying to justify your amoral stance on NOx you'd find Mercedes do actually quote the NOx reductions, or is that just another inconvenient fact for you?

To make it easy for you here is the relevant detail. You'll note it applies to Euro 5 and Euro 6 vehicles.

https://www.daimler.com/innovation/antriebe/diesel/serviceaktion-rueckruf-ueberblick.html

Enjoy.

 

[Tony Dyson]

You seem to forget the V8s are rarely used or is that just another inconvenient fact for you.
I commute 84 miles per day. 2 of that is walking, 74 of it is by electric vehicle, 8 of it is petrol. Normally none of those petrol miles involve a V8.
My normal commuting car until 18 months ago was a whopping great oversized 700cc. You'll note I own 4 cars. Each for a specific reason, use profile or purpose. That way I tailor my transport to my requirements.

Now, about the updates. If you spent as much time researching your facts as you do trying to justify your amoral stance on NOx you'd find Mercedes do actually quote the NOx reductions, or is that just another inconvenient fact for you?

To make it easy for you here is the relevant detail. You'll note it applies to Euro 5 and Euro 6 vehicles.

https://www.daimler.com/innovation/antriebe/diesel/serviceaktion-rueckruf-ueberblick.html

Enjoy.

Just repeating yourself really doesn't make any difference whatsoever, you need to direct your concerns to DVSA.

 

[LostKiwi]

Just repeating yourself really doesn't make any difference whatsoever, you need to direct your concerns to DVSA.

What? No attack on a gas guzzling 700cc car? Or criticism on the use of an electric vehicle?

As for repeating oneself...

 

[Tony Dyson]

What? No attack on a gas guzzling 700cc car? Or criticism on the use of an electric vehicle?

As for repeating oneself...

No, why would I? Just highlighting the hypocrisy of feigning to care about the environment while using the other cars you own and pumping out the CO² you don’t like to talk about was all I wanted to achieve.

 

[JBell]

 

[LostKiwi]

No, why would I? Just highlighting the hypocrisy of feigning to care about the environment while using the other cars you own and pumping out the CO² you don’t like to talk about was all I wanted to achieve.

This thread was never about CO2. The issue we are discussing in the thread is NOx and PM. Those are what the updates are about.
If you want to discuss CO2 then go ahead on another thread.
It seems to me you're now trying to justify your NOx stance on the basis of other vehicles producing more CO2, conveniently (once again) demonstrating your lack of understanding of the whole picture.
N2O is a more harmful gas than CO2.
NOx in the atmosphere forms HNO3 which drops to earth as acid rain causing deforestation which decreases the ability of nature to absorb CO2.
NOx is much more harmful to life in the short term than CO2 being responsible for serious illnesses including cancer.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas too but has a natural cycle which is far shorter than NOx.
CO2 is a vital component of plant growth.
CO2 is not toxic to life at the same concentrations as NOx.

This is what science has been aware of for many years and whilst our CO2 emissions are undoubtedly somewhat out of control it does not pose the same short term health risks as NOx, which is also a contributor to rising CO2 through deforestation.

So how many of your journeys do you do in your own in a vehicle that is uneccessarily large and polluting for just one person?
How many miles do you do using cleaner forms of transport?

 

[Tony Dyson]

This thread was never about CO2. The issue we are discussing in the thread is NOx and PM. Those are what the updates are about.
If you want to discuss CO2 then go ahead on another thread.
It seems to me you're now trying to justify your NOx stance on the basis of other vehicles producing more CO2, conveniently (once again) demonstrating your lack of understanding of the whole picture.
N2O is a more harmful gas than CO2.
NOx in the atmosphere forms HNO3 which drops to earth as acid rain causing deforestation which decreases the ability of nature to absorb CO2.
NOx is much more harmful to life in the short term than CO2 being responsible for serious illnesses including cancer.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas too but has a natural cycle which is far shorter than NOx.
CO2 is a vital component of plant growth.
CO2 is not toxic to life at the same concentrations as NOx.

This is what science has been aware of for many years and whilst our CO2 emissions are undoubtedly somewhat out of control it does not pose the same short term health risks as NOx, which is also a contributor to rising CO2 through deforestation.

So how many of your journeys do you do in your own in a vehicle that is uneccessarily large and polluting for just one person?
How many miles do you do using cleaner forms of transport?

Who are you to decide what will or will not be discussed on any thread in the forum? The discussion is about the Emissions Update of which CO² is a valid component for inclusion, just because you’re embarrassed about your contribution doesn’t remove it from the table and the fact that the DVSA have based their vehicle taxation rates on it tells me they consider it a far more important component that your internet ramblings are finding. Thank you for your offer to enter into a personal Carbon Footprint competition but while my conscience is clear, I’m not a hypocrite and don’t claim to be a ‘pseudo eco-warrior’ neither am I really interested, apart from it being off topic so no thanks.

 

[Blobcat]

Thread closed