MB Recall results into P001685 (camshaft)

[drei]

Hey, my first post here.

I was wondering if someone could make sense of the following or had a similar issue:

I bought a C200 (2015) a couple of months ago, which had an MB recall for a software update.

Dropped the car at the MB, which did the below two software updates:

SRPC2044 Alternator Operation
4985 Update Powertrain control unit software

Post the software update; the ECL appeared in the dashboard. I got a call, and I authorised an initial investigation (I had to pay for it), which pointed out a timing chain issue.

They wanted to authorise over 2K to sort out the issue without knowing the root cause. This is baffling to me. I declined the offer and took the car to an MB specialist, where they identified after several tests that the position of the intake camshaft is outside the normal range.

Now I need to decide my next steps as the worst-case scenario to resolve this issue is 1.5K.


How can a software update change the position of the intake camshaft? Might the issue have existed before, and the previous owner played around with the software?

I am honestly confused and I would really appreciate your opinion.

 

[Blobcat]

Hello and welcome,

The OM651 has a simplex chain and can unfortunately stretch. If you bought it from a used car dealership then you have sufficient protection under the consumer rights act to take it back and get a refund.

 

[alexanderfoti]

The engine ecu adapts to slow changes to wear on the sensor. When the sensor gets older, it gets slower which results in a slightly delayed read of the position of the cam.

When the chain wears slowly, it cannot determine the difference between chain wear and sensor wear, but will adapt, up to a certain point.

When doing the software update, the adaptions are reset and suddenly the ecu realises that it's too far out and pops up the light.

 

[ajlsl600]

Great. Another case for avoiding update!! Nu 1 noise sensor, the ear, is my judge of timing chain wear. Maybe u can get the updates removed?? What bothers me the most, I believe, is that benz update everything .not just the ones referring to a recall and if I am correct further glitches that you will have to pay for may surface as a result... Maybe someone else can confirm or deny this?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Welcome!

Is the vehicle high mileage?

 

[ajlsl600]

Do try tensioner change 1st. If u must do chain u will need tensioner, so nothing to loose.

 

[Rory]

Great. Another case for avoiding update!!

You do have to wonder what the point of software updates is on older cars - it's asking for trouble if the car is working fine.

Took wfe's 7yr old VW Tiguan to the dealer recently and they said they'd be updating the emissions system (it's a later car, not affected by the VW emissions scandal). I asked if they'd done any others and they said mine was the first. Hmmm - I'll let someone else test it then. German forums show a variery of issues, including massively increased AdBlue use.

 

[grahamcol]

This is progress ???

 

[ajlsl600]

Welcome!

Is the vehicle high mileage?

 

[drei]

Thank you to everyone that responded. To clarify a couple of points made or questions raised:

1. I bought the car privately. The only option is to speak with that person or go via court.
2. The mileage is low; it did only 57K.
3. @alexanderfoti, what you said makes sense; however, I think the ECU should not adapt and notify that the sensor requires to be changed (not a mechanic, so please correct me if I am wrong here). I assume that if the chain wears more and more, the ECU will adapt further, which might result in a more significant problem than just replacing the sensor.

If this is a known issue with the sensor, it should be in the MB handbook to change some of the sensors at 50k miles or when it starts to slow down.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, the ECU should adapt if a sensor is slowing down, and how can a sensor slow down? It works or not.
It sounds like it depends on luck; if you are lucky, the car might do another 30k miles and require just a sensor replacement; if not, then fork out £2K or more to resolve the issue.

The tests show that the position of the intake camshaft is 35 degrees, where it should be between 48.84 and 59.69 degrees.

What I do not understand is the impact on the car/engine. Should I take it to a garage and sort it out or leave it for another year?

 

[drei]

@ajlsl600 when I went to the garage, the gentleman there mentioned that someone else had many issues with his Mercedes after the updates.

I would say that certain items have been designed to adapt and to wear down slowly so that when you are going for a free software update, you will need to fork out thousands of pounds.

 

[Blobcat]

Thank you to everyone that responded. To clarify a couple of points made or questions raised:

1. I bought the car privately. The only option is to speak with that person or go via court.
2. The mileage is low; it did only 57K.
3. @alexanderfoti, what you said makes sense; however, I think the ECU should not adapt and notify that the sensor requires to be changed (not a mechanic, so please correct me if I am wrong here). I assume that if the chain wears more and more, the ECU will adapt further, which might result in a more significant problem than just replacing the sensor.

If this is a known issue with the sensor, it should be in the MB handbook to change some of the sensors at 50k miles or when it starts to slow down.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, the ECU should adapt if a sensor is slowing down, and how can a sensor slow down? It works or not.
It sounds like it depends on luck; if you are lucky, the car might do another 30k miles and require just a sensor replacement; if not, then fork out £2K or more to resolve the issue.

The tests show that the position of the intake camshaft is 35 degrees, where it should be between 48.84 and 59.69 degrees.

What I do not understand is the impact on the car/engine. Should I take it to a garage and sort it out or leave it for another year?

The OM651 is an "Interference" engine - so if the timing goes out far enough there will be a valve / piston interface - that doesn't end well for either of them - I'd get a competent mechanic (Mercedes Independent Specialist) to investigate and see if you can get away with a new tensioner and chain - they can assess the cam gears as well as they have a tendency to round off badly - this will make the job significantly larger

 

[sonic]

If you Google OM651 you will find loads of info on the subject. My wife had 2 SLK's with the 651 engine, neither had this problem one had 90K miles on the clock when sold.
These issues normally occur about 90K miles plus, & regular oil changes seems to reduce the likelihood of it happening. I would certainly not leave it, get it done now.

 

[Blobcat]

If you Google OM651 you will find loads of info on the subject. My wife had 2 SLK's with the 651 engine, neither had this problem one had 90K miles on the clock when sold.
These issues normally occur about 90K miles plus, & regular oil changes seems to reduce the likelihood of it happening. I would certainly not leave it, get it done now.

"Stop / Start" is also credited with increasing wear prematurely

 

[ajlsl600]

My 1800 twin carb wud be an interference motor if the chain let go. Think they just better quality then didn't break much
N ur right on stop start. Not been used on my ml since I bought the car and it won't be used!!! Stupid design, organised by some nutter.

 

[ajlsl600]

The OM651 is an "Interference" engine - so if the timing goes out far enough there will be a valve / piston interface - that doesn't end well for either of them - I'd get a competent mechanic (Mercedes Independent Specialist) to investigate and see if you can get away with a new tensioner and chain - they can assess the cam gears as well as they have a tendency to round off badly - this will make the job significantly larger

Must be shxte design of oil flow over chain, sprockets, gears then or possibly shxte QC on making them.
I think the terms quality, design are now a thing of past on cars and much else.

 

[ajlsl600]

@ajlsl600 when I went to the garage, the gentleman there mentioned that someone else had many issues with his Mercedes after the updates.

I would say that certain items have been designed to adapt and to wear down slowly so that when you are going for a free software update, you will need to fork out thousands of pounds.

Not all will agree but I won't be going in for any f updates, ever, unless circumstances force me to, and I see that comming...... Car counts down 500 to go before no start story. Already existing on ad shite cars.......

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Have you checked the MoT history and service history of the car to make sure the mileage is correct I do this with all cars I’m thinking of buying. If it is correct that’s very low mileage for the type of problem you’re experiencing. The reason the cost of replacing the timing chain and guides is so high is that the engine needs to be removed to do this on the OM651

 

[ajlsl600]

It can be done in stu, if guides are still good if I understand correctly?, if guides shot it is motor ouy. Cos some pxxxk put eng in wrong way around.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

It can be done in stu, if guides are still good if I understand correctly?, if guides shot it is motor ouy. Cos some pxxxk put eng in wrong way around.

I remember SAAB doing this in the 70/80s when they used the Triumph 4 pot engine never thought I’d see it happen again certainly not from MB