Merc Gearboxes

[television]

Perhaps there have been more MB failures than BMW failures because nearly all MBs are automatic, there are lots more BMWs with manuals than MB.

You do have a very good point there Batman.

The only thing on the auto front is that eric is the only one saying that MB boxes fail more than BMW. He says this without any back up. It is This kind of talk that has led to the arguments in the past.

I do not know of many garages that recon there own boxes, they all go out to specialist. Even MB dealers do not recon themselves, the box comes from the factory. I am not talking about changing things with the sump off or changing the plate.
If this was true, surely someone else would have observed this.

No it cant be so

 

[shj]

Regarding Merc/BMW box reliability,Eric must have a point since he works with both marques,which in its self is unusual,ok Eric's experiences are only a very small sample,Merc themselves surely will not own up to gearbox problems.When Merc order say 5000 gear boxes from ZF it can't be beyound the bounds of possibilty that they could slighty change the spec to save money,they have cut corners in the past to save money,to their cost !

 

[television]

Regarding Merc/BMW box reliability,Eric must have a point since he works with both marques,which in its self is unusual,ok Eric's experiences are only a very small sample,Merc themselves surely will not own up to gearbox problems.When Merc order say 5000 gear boxes from ZF it can't be beyound the bounds of possibilty that they could slighty change the spec to save money,they have cut corners in the past to save money,to their cost !

Simon you can push this around forever and get no where.

There is no part of the box that could be economised on. Eric appears to be the only man in the world that has made this statement, and has not and cannot say why this is the case

 

[shj]

I'll go away now !

 

[Dosco]

OEM and all that

I have always believed that MB auto's are amongst the best on the market but their manual boxes leave something to be desired. Given that I drive both I have to say the six speed manual fitted to the E220CD's I drive are very notchy, indeed not just on one vehicle but on the rest of the fleet. The auto's perform outstanding even after 200,000 plus miles - and not one failure, mind you the manuals have never failed either.

I have owned a couple of Beamers, excuse me whilst I wasah my mouth out! a 530 and a 535. The former an automatatic and the latter a 5 speed manual. The auto was nothing but trouble and led me to change to the 535 manual which was excellent, this car is still running around after some 15 years now with darkened glass, ****** noisy exhaust and a boom boom stereo driven by oops unable to say what sorry who but is well known for supplying good quality 'greens'

I guess if you are unlucky or you happen to use a tag like Omninuetron wotsit then bugger it will go wrong and keep going wrong

OEM Suppliers supply against their customers spec and if that customer wants a plastic gear box that is what he will get. A good supplier thoughj will always try to work with and influence a manufacture and given he is the expert will have a very important part to play in the design and initial spec to ensure all objectives are met and production costs are kept to a minimum. It is quite normal these days to have similar if not the same parts fitted to competitors products, sometimes the only difference being is the logo used, part number stamped on it or the colour. As to cutting corners if the customer wants to cut corners most OEM suppliers will oblige but some wont in particular if their reputation is likely to suffer as a result. But business is business so sometimes it is never mind the quality feel the width!

 

[Stevie A]

If you read all of the postings here, you will see that there is no way that MB can cut corners, on what, where. Eric is the only man that I know that has made this comment and has failed to show any single component where this is
so.
Do a search on the other big 3 forums, no one has ever made a comment like this.
Its all a load of talk with no fact what so ever. they dont even have 124 in China.

Good point Malcolm.

To follow up my other point I mentioned. I had a look on the detail.ru last night and seems from that site that the 722.4 box was used in 1980's cars and right up to the millenium C Class. Seems that they now use the 722.6 variant on newer Mercs and the newer C-Class.

 

[eric242340]

Let me put this in perspective. I dont want anyone to talk bad of Mercedes or to worry about the Mercedes they own, or may buy soon. First point is I am in Asia and I cannot compare this experience with europe as I cant be in two places at the same time. Asia has its own poblems that affect the car, ie Humidity, heat, monsoons, and a totally different driving style (not to mention the bad roads).

Next point, Malcolm is correct that in Europe and North America the dealer will simply replace the box with a factory unit. But this is not the case in Asia. This is why my experience is unique. European mechanics dont rebuild entire boxes and therefore have less experience.

The boxes in question date back to late eighties and early nineties, when both Mercedes and BMW were using the same ZF boxes (not so now). The most common reason for a Benz box failure was the oil cooler pipes leaking, and the build/design of the pipes and cooler were different on BMW.

We have very few (in 13 years ive seen one) manual boxes in China. So i cant comment on these.

But finally, if I were asked to choose between Mercedes and BMW, there would be no question in my mind MERCEDES is my car. Todays Benz boxes are far more reliable than the ZF days. They only have one common problem and that is an oil leak where the wiring enters the tranny and there is a simple cure for this. So please, Benz owners, dont let my posting disturb you. Im fully behind Mercedes Benz.

 

[230ceBruno]

I second eric's position on rebuild experience. The very fact that one can afford a new car rather than repair the old, plus the desire to keep in current fashion reduces the need for many such rebuilds.:-(

Services cost significantly less than products in these countries

 

[television]

The boxes in question date back to late eighties and early nineties, when both Mercedes and BMW were using the same ZF boxes (not so now). The most common reason for a Benz box failure was the oil cooler pipes leaking, and the build/design of the pipes and cooler were different on BMW.

The oil cooler parts are made by the car maker and not the gearbox manufacture and cant be considered as a gearbox failure. this is nothing new,and it happens on later cars as can be seen by the postings last week.


If the rad leaks you do not say that it is a cheap engine

 

[lakeside]

ZF make auto boxes for BMW, Jaguar, Volvo, amongst others. The manuals for BMW are made by Getrag. Mercedes make their own auto boxes themselves, and always have done. This whole "discussion" is based on a false premise.

 

[television]

ZF make auto boxes for BMW, Jaaguar, Volvo, amongst others. The manuals for BMW are made by Getrag. Mercedes make their own auto boxes themselves, and always have done. This whole "discussion" is based on a false premise.

Thank you for coming on with this, I said at the start of this that MB made their own.
Oh no says eric, they don't,they are ZF I know because I fix them all day long

All this time wasted.
http://geo.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=5609&ref=archive

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission.htm

I just hope that the Moderators do not see it as me arguing I only ever wanted information as accurate as possible for I cant compete with someone who fixes them all day long

 

[iamamanc]

I just hope that the Moderators do not see it as me arguing I only ever wanted information as accurate as possible for I cant compete with someone who fixes them all day long

Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate which also educates at the same time
Cracking thread may I add, no it isn't yes it is

 

[television]

Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate which also educates at the same time
Cracking thread may I add, no it isn't yes it is

No I do not think it is, this answer was so far out by eric from post 3 and 5 where eric joined in saying that he will not be drawn in to this silly debate.

And silly it was from his own postings, I got banned on a gearbox thread where eric joined in offering nothing useful to that thread. The problem when some one comes on and says "I fix them all day" leaves me with no where to go.

 

[panason1c]

The problem when some one comes on and says "I fix them all day" leaves me with no where to go.

Perhaps that is because someone who fixes them all day is probably more knowledgable than someone who looks things up on a computer all day........

A very recent example is where i confirmed to a questioner that a 2002 ML is fitted with a totally 'stand alone', separate transmission oil cooler and you then joined the thread incorrectly stating that after 'looking it up' the tranny and coolant radiator was a single combined unit.

The point being that i correctly answered the question from 'practical' experience of working on ML's and you 'incorrectly' answered the question from looking at your computer.



http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=22059&page=3

 

[lakeside]

Malcolm, I have sent you a private message.

 

[television]

Perhaps that is because someone who fixes them all day is probably more knowledgable than someone who looks things up on a computer all day........

A very recent example is where i confirmed to a questioner that a 2002 ML is fitted with a totally 'stand alone', separate transmission oil cooler and you then joined the thread incorrectly stating that after 'looking it up' the tranny and coolant radiator was a single combined unit.

The point being that i correctly answered the question from 'practical' experience of working on ML's and you 'incorrectly' answered the question from looking at your computer.

I am so very sorry about that Panosonic, actually I said "it would appear so" and put up a little link as I do that is often worth more than a 1000 words and that have helped so many people.

Once again I am very sorry and thank you for this informative post though sadly it does nothing for this thread

 

[lakeside]

Perhaps that is because someone who fixes them all day is probably more knowledgable than someone who looks things up on a computer all day........

Anyone can claim to "fix them all day". And lets face it, if they also claim to be in China, who's going to be able to verify that they do or not?
A forum like this contains opinions, some more informed than others. If indisputable facts are required, there are better places to look frankly. Many so-called specialists in these cars have large gaps in their knowledge, when compared to real-life experience. As do main dealers. I take any advice here with a pinch of salt, not as gospel truth.

 

[Blobcat]

A forum like this contains opinions, some more informed than others. If indisputable facts are required, there are better places to look frankly. Many so-called specialists in these cars have large gaps in their knowledge, when compared to real-life experience. As do main dealers. I take any advice here with a pinch of salt, not as gospel truth.

Excellent advice.

I personally do not know who makes Mercedes Gearboxes. However pls copy the following into Google;

"mercedes ZF gearbox"

Then check the resulsts. Pls remeber to copy the quotation marks as well

 

[Blobcat]

I have managed to find one Mercedes ZF Gearbox, However the advert may not be totally accurate.;

 

[eric242340]

Thank you for coming on with this, I said at the start of this that MB made their own.
Oh no says eric, they don't,they are ZF I know because I fix them all day long

All this time wasted.
http://geo.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=5609&ref=archive

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission.htm

I just hope that the Moderators do not see it as me arguing I only ever wanted information as accurate as possible for I cant compete with someone who fixes them all day long

Your correct on this point, you cannot argue with anyone who fixes them. ZF is clearly marked on the late 80s to mid 90s boxes. You will not find this sort of information on the internet, and therefore you are misleading people. Any transmission specialist will concuur. and the poster of this thread thought time had been wasted? Then dont waste my time. Why ask if you think (?) you know, when obviously you dont. ZF for your information was an outsource supplier of MB from the 80s to late 90s and almost as well know as Bosch because of their boxes.