Mercedes Diesel software update.

[js190d]

no makes it the very same car, now doing what it was supposed to do and thus was only capable of - when not running an illegal map

if everyone believed the marketing team's and the rubbish from the media and our governments just think what a disaster we'd all be in - opps !!! forgot nearly everyone except Greta are on that page

If it is the very same car then why did VW in the USA give owners of cars fitted with cheating software so much money in compensation? Are they philanthropists?

There is a reason corporations spend huge sums on marketing and that is because it works.

As for the cult known as Greta well if you believe in the exploitation of a young person in this way then you need to rethink imho.

 

[rf065]

if everyone believed the marketing team's

Then that becomes "misselling", just like PPI. There are laws on describing a product and then delivering something different.

 

[Rozgi]

If it is the very same car then why did VW in the USA give owners of cars fitted with cheating software so much money in compensation? Are they philanthropists?

There is a reason corporations spend huge sums on marketing and that is because it works.

As for the cult known as Greta well if you believe in the exploitation of a young person in this way then you need to rethink imho.

I tend to agree. It is annoying. The only good news is it is a very tiny fraction of the TCO. Taking the sheer numbers, the difference of MPG makes is just some hundreds of pounds per year. (Compared to depreciation, financing, service, tyre, etc). Should it be a problem anyone can join a lawsuit. There are quite a few running internationally. You need to expect to finance 1500-2000 EUR of cost upfront and may receive 2-8k EUR of compensation (above your costs, hopefully) depending on the value of your car. Or maybe an offer to upgrade your car to the latest model with the same 2-8k discount.
What we need to see the problem is much much wider than 2 engines of one manufacturer. If you take a look at the real-world emission figures you could actually see that no manufacturer as getting any near to the NOx so as to the CO2 limits these days.
Below chart is to show 700k measurements on 2011-2017 cars in 5 countries (including the UK)

And petrol engines getting to have the same problem. Most new petrols (with the direct injection, lean mixture, turbos, million plus one sensors) need to have NOx converters and having the same sort of lies around consumption. On the top that they break down and the engine needs to be written off at 70k miles easily.
EURO3 end EURO4 cars were way more honest. They have had 10-20% more consumption (in real world) but has less NOx (at least the petrol ones).

To avoid this sort of misery you may need to go to a fully electric one or try to find and run a 30 year old 300E, 250D (assuming you'd like to have a project car or maybe two to have one running all the times).

 

[Botus]

If it is the very same car then why did VW in the USA give owners of cars fitted with cheating software so much money in compensation? Are they philanthropists?

There is a reason corporations spend huge sums on marketing and that is because it works.

no doubt marketing works on idiots...

as for compensation to VW owners in the USA, its got nothing whatsoever to do with emissions. USA anti competition tactics go back many years in the automotive world

50 years ago, stupid bumper style and placement stop imports looking good
40 years ago, Audi put the brake pedal too close to the throttle VAG nearly goes bust when American's accelerate out of control
10 years ago, Toyota become the world's biggest car brand and all of a sudden one grandad with a lose floor mat and a despondent copper murders his family and the marketeers spin it in to every Toyota ever built is a death trap. The reality was not a single car worldwide had a real fault
5 years ago, VW become the world's biggest car brand (with Toyota still liking their wounds) and oh look we found it drives nicely, please give each owner a new car for free

 

[Rozgi]

The lawsuit I am talking about is indeed a German case against Daimler due to the very same reasons. Any owner can join from any country having an EURO5 or EURO6 diesel. Decided not to go ahead when I was asked to pre-finance 1500 EUR or so. For most countries (including Germany) this sort of legal expenses are included in the regular car insurance. (So a German owner did not need to finance anything. The solicitor was to take his policy number only.)

 

[LostKiwi]

I tend to agree. It is annoying. The only good news is it is a very tiny fraction of the TCO. Taking the sheer numbers, the difference of MPG makes is just some hundreds of pounds per year. (Compared to depreciation, financing, service, tyre, etc). Should it be a problem anyone can join a lawsuit. There are quite a few running internationally. You need to expect to finance 1500-2000 EUR of cost upfront and may receive 2-8k EUR of compensation (above your costs, hopefully) depending on the value of your car. Or maybe an offer to upgrade your car to the latest model with the same 2-8k discount.
What we need to see the problem is much much wider than 2 engines of one manufacturer. If you take a look at the real-world emission figures you could actually see that no manufacturer as getting any near to the NOx so as to the CO2 limits these days.
Below chart is to show 700k measurements on 2011-2017 cars in 5 countries (including the UK)
View attachment 56489
And petrol engines getting to have the same problem. Most new petrols (with the direct injection, lean mixture, turbos, million plus one sensors) need to have NOx converters and having the same sort of lies around consumption. On the top that they break down and the engine needs to be written off at 70k miles easily.
EURO3 end EURO4 cars were way more honest. They have had 10-20% more consumption (in real world) but has less NOx (at least the petrol ones).

To avoid this sort of misery you may need to go to a fully electric one or try to find and run a 30 year old 300E, 250D (assuming you'd like to have a project car or maybe two to have one running all the times).

Your graph beautifully demonstrates why diesel should be retired as a fuel for private vehicles.

 

[Mark A]

Why don’t we just ban all motorised vehicles and go back to horse and cart / walking.

At least it would make some people happy.

 

[rf065]

Your graph beautifully demonstrates why diesel should be retired as a fuel for private vehicles.

As long as large V8 petrols go at the same time I've no problem with that!

 

[davidsl500]

As long as large V8 petrols go at the same time I've no problem with that!

Especially with missing cats.....

 

[LostKiwi]

As long as large V8 petrols go at the same time I've no problem with that!

Even the V8s emit less NOX than most of those diesels, even with secondary cats removed.

 

[rf065]

Even the V8s emit less NOX than most of those diesels, even with secondary cats removed.

Still not clean though are they? If they were we'd all have them and no-one would need electric cars.
You might hate diesels, but be very careful what you wish for.

 

[LostKiwi]

Still not clean though are they? If they were we'd all have them and no-one would need electric cars.
You might hate diesels, but be very careful what you wish for.

No they aren't clean, but they are cleaner than diesels.
And, as I've stated countless times, the V8s are not daily drivers. Of my annual mileage they'd be less than 20% between them on average.

 

[js190d]

Some people seem to be forgetting that it is not the diesel engine which is "dirty" it is the fuel.

There are established alternatives to pump diesel which produce far less emissions but for some reason they are not widely available.

https://maritime-executive.com/corp...ion-promises-bright-future-for-shell-gtl-fuel

 

[LostKiwi]

Some people seem to be forgetting that it is not the diesel engine which is "dirty" it is the fuel.

There are established alternatives to pump diesel which produce far less emissions but for some reason they are not widely available.

https://maritime-executive.com/corp...ion-promises-bright-future-for-shell-gtl-fuel

They may be better than diesel as a fuel but there is a clear link between the length of the carbon chain and the emissions of PM and NOx.
Methane as a fuel (CNG) is very clean as is propane (LPG), both cleaner than petrol. As the carbon chain lengthens so the NOx increases.
Part of this is due to increased combustion pressures and part is due to increased combustion temperatures.

It's all moot anyway. All new ICE engines will be banned in 15 years.

 

[rf065]

It's all moot anyway. All new ICE engines will be banned in 15 years.

Still plenty of time to reverse that when they find electric technology has not progressed fast enough to take over completely.
Makes you think too, what about the army, are we getting electric tanks and troop carriers?

 

[LostKiwi]

Still plenty of time to reverse that when they find electric technology has not progressed fast enough to take over completely.
Makes you think too, what about the army, are we getting electric tanks and troop carriers?

They won't reverse though. Electric is already viable for 90% of journeys.
The military have always been a special case with access to fuels the rest of the population can't get.

 

[ioweddie]

Recall update...I had a supplement from Mercedes yesterday...telling me my car will use more add blue...and to be aware it may need additional topping up between services...the booklet was like a cheque book in a million languages...and it tells you to keep it with the original books supplied with the car....

Does this mean the nox sensors will start to fail as more add blue is being used?

Or is just covering their arse.... in case people start to claim...re the emissions scandal...

 

[Steve Taxi]

Did a real world consumption test this morning, 300 miles mainly motorways, the actual consumption was 39.4 mpg and the trip was 39.2 mpg so the trip is very accurate, a drop on pre update mpg but looks like I'll have to live with it until Watchdog get involved

 

[Botus]

and how accurate was the trip computer before?

this is the crux of knowing if actual consumption changed. software updates on my bike included "improving accuracy of the trip computer"

 

[ioweddie]

my round the Isle of Wight consumption has been above 42mpg from new..since the update its dropped to 39.2mpg