Mercedes Follows Ford?

[SLinKyjoe]

In posting number 13 of this thread you said:- "Whichever way you choose to look at it, Chrysler is the owner of the Mercedes Brand."

I am not sure if you have read the links you give but here is a direct quote from the second one:-
"In 1998, Chrysler merged with Daimler-Benz to become DaimlerChrysler. The merger was said as "equal merge", but in 2000 most American top executives were sacked and replaced with German. By then it was clear that the merger was actually a takeover by Mercedes."

I choose to assume you have disregarded the rest of any of the links, that fact that DC Insider confirms what I say, and the fact that on my car, which is a mercedes benz and is built in germany by DailmerChryler AG, that Daimler Chrysler owns the brand Mercedes and it is not the other way around!

Popular wording as you have choosen to highlight may well be how Joe Public knows it, but as a Mercedes Enthusiast, the history and facts are out there.

your original post in this thread made clear you were thinking people will down market mercedes in to thinking they are chryslers. Nothing you have put up suggest that is the case and the fact remains that Daimler Chrysler owns Mercedes.

Mercedes is the brand name and nothing will change that including dressing up mercedes in chrysler dresses.

And quite clearly Mercedes are in fact owned by Chrysler. Daimler chrysler to be pendantic. the company formally known as Daimler Benz, which owned the brand Mercedes in the first place.

 

[big x]

I don't think Mercedes did their image much good selling engines and gearboxes to the likes of Ssangyong.In 1995 the M104 3.2L was in use in the SL,E and S class but it still found it's way into the Ssangyyong Musso with the MB badges intact.


adam

 

[hawk20]

And quite clearly Mercedes are in fact owned by Chrysler. .

You may think that but few others do.

You said, originally, “Mercedes does not own Chrysler!”
To which I replied –and I still stick to this: -
“I would put that somewhat differently. Daimler Chrysler is the new parent company/holding company set up by Daimler Benz (effectively Mercedes) after they bought Chrysler. In every normal sense of the words Mercedes owns Chrysler.”

The Times, the Financial Times, the Economist, and the Wall Street Journal, plus the second reference you gave, and the definitive book on the merger, which I gave, all agree that Daimler Benz (effectively Mercedes) bought the Chrysler Corporation and that what might have seemed a merger of equals to some, in fact turned out to be a takeover by Daimler Benz (effectively Mercedes) of Chrysler. Or as the Press would have it, the Germans took over the Americans, Mercedes effectively took over Chrysler. And that is why Schremp and now Dr Z have been in charge and not the Americans.

Let your own reference tell the tale: -
"In 1998, Chrysler merged with Daimler-Benz to become DaimlerChrysler. The merger was said as "equal merge", but in 2000 most American top executives were sacked and replaced with German. By then it was clear that the merger was actually a takeover by Mercedes."

 

[television]

And the 5sp Auto box found in the Stype and XJ/XK is a Merc unit!

!

Surely these are just normal ZF gearboxes that many car makers use, any difference being in the electric control box.

malcolm

 

[hawk20]

The only way a merc will follow a ford is if its getting towed. but i agree they remind me of a ford full of rust problems

Sure you are on the right forum?

 

[television]

Sure you are on the right forum?

I think right in the head is nearer the point.

malcolm

 

[hawk20]

Sure you are on the right forum?

Anyone explain this: the Tiptronic posting has disappeared from the thread. Can someone post and then delete? Or would an administrator remove for abusing the marque. Pretty mild compared with some I've seen.

 

[big x]

Surely these are just normal ZF gearboxes that many car makers use, any difference being in the electric control box.

malcolm

No Malcolm certain Jags use complete MB made boxes, MB also sell them to Korea.

adam

 

[hawk20]

No Malcolm certain Jags use complete MB made boxes, MB also sell them to Korea.

adam

Amazing. Can you give a link that confirms this point please? If I ever repeat it -and good enough to pinch- nice to have a link to confirm.

 

[davidsl500]

Anyone explain this: the Tiptronic posting has disappeared from the thread. Can someone post and then delete? Or would an administrator remove for abusing the marque. Pretty mild compared with some I've seen.

I removed the posting Hawk. I removed most of "his" postings as it is one of our old "friends". You obviously didnt read some of the other postings that were made in the same sitting which were abusive to certain other members and moderators. Certain dissruptive people will register on the Forum, post a few harmless comments / questions and then when they think no-one is looking will post offensive / abuse / racial / pornographic or other comments. My answer is to ban the user and select all his/her/its posts and remove them to minimise the time that this rubbish is on the Forum.

 

[hawk20]

Understood.

 

[big x]

Amazing. Can you give a link that confirms this point please? If I ever repeat it -and good enough to pinch- nice to have a link to confirm.

Select Jaguar XK8 and other jag models and honest john mentions the gearbox type used.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/index.php?url=/carbycar/index.htm

For Korean use see

http://www.smotor.com/en/showroom/chairman/performance_1.jsp

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/downs/9323/sych600.htm


adam

 

[mlc]

I think my love of Fords is well known, I have just swapped my beloved Mondeo for an S class, so the household is now 3 MB's and 2 Fords.

I think everyone has missed one big difference in this arguement. Ford build Mondeos with new badging in the old Halewood Escort factory, add 4 wheel drive and very little else and ask for lots more money. The idea is good but even MrsC. sat recently in a 3 litre sports X type and pointed our that it was a Mondeo aimed at an older man. Sadly for Ford / Jaguar most people also see the link, so why would you pay lots extra for a Mondeo.

On the other hand Skoda can say "buy me, Im really a VW but for lots less money" Chrysler can do the same, my barber has a Crossfire (I must be a big tipper), the first thing he told me about it was that it has the MB 3.2 litre engine.

So the system only works if you offer the technology in a lesser car at a lesser price and the buyer thinks he has a bargin.


Mark

 

[SLinKyjoe]

Obviously not a selected comment designed to reinforce my incorrect understanding of history.

just a picture

 

[hawk20]

I think my love of Fords is well known, I have just swapped my beloved Mondeo for an S class, so the household is now 3 MB's and 2 Fords.

I think everyone has missed one big difference in this arguement. Ford build Mondeos with new badging in the old Halewood Escort factory, add 4 wheel drive and very little else and ask for lots more money. The idea is good but even MrsC. sat recently in a 3 litre sports X type and pointed our that it was a Mondeo aimed at an older man. Sadly for Ford / Jaguar most people also see the link, so why would you pay lots extra for a Mondeo.

On the other hand Skoda can say "buy me, Im really a VW but for lots less money" Chrysler can do the same, my barber has a Crossfire (I must be a big tipper), the first thing he told me about it was that it has the MB 3.2 litre engine.

So the system only works if you offer the technology in a lesser car at a lesser price and the buyer thinks he has a bargin.


Mark

Yes, I think there is a lot in that argument. Certainly in the short run. My worry is that in the long run, as more and more components become common, the case for paying a substantial differential for the dearer brand disappears. In the end the Skoda and the VW must get closer and closer on price as more and more components become KNOWN TO BE COMMON. Then you end up as badge engineering like the British and it falls apart. You can fool some of the public ..... etc

 

[poseidon]

Hi,

I think that Mercedes engines have already been used in other makes.
Mercedes put diesel engines in Austrian Puch vehicles back in 1980's. These were the 240D and 300D from 123 type cars. Puch made good 4 wheel drives at that time, it is now Magna Steyr.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Interesting subject marketing, get it wrong as Ford have in the case of Jaguar and it can ruin a business, and its parent, no matter how big a player. It seems to me that its easier to move down market as DC have done than move upmarket as Ford have tried to do.

Ford's takeover and subsequent model release at Jaguar will no doubt prove an interesting business lesson in marketing failure for years to come, only equaled by the fiasco at GEC (but obviously for different reasons). It no doubt was an attempt to emulate the success of BMW (with a three model range) but lacked the necessary design and marketing flair.

I have owned one or two Fords and by and large they offer better value for money nowadays, but they have a reputation for discounting and that is what the customer expects. I hope after the Kwik-Fit fiasco and other acquisition blunders that they get back on track.

I feel that DC will fare better than Ford when it comes to discounting poviding they maintain their technology advantage over competitors. Disounting end of line cars is standard practice and provided that the newer models come with better bells and whistles they will get away with it.

The only thing that amazes me about DC's marketing is the large number of new models being wheeled out over the last few years. The development costs involved must be enormous, although the upside is more sales I wonder what will happen when the new model release slows down, only then will we see where DC are going. I just hope that they can back this up with qaulity and customer care, the downside of this expansion is when A class owners realise that they are expected to pay through the nose for maintenanve like the rest of us, what will ahppen to DC's move down market then.

 

[jberks]

the downside of this expansion is when A class owners realise that they are expected to pay through the nose for maintenanve like the rest of us, what will ahppen to DC's move down market then.

This is one of the most interesting issues they face I imagine. As I've said previously, dealers will charge what they can get away with. The problem here, is that by moving to a poisiton where cars cost from £15k to £115k, what they can get away with varies wildly depending on who they're dealing with. Clearly, someone who pays 40k or more for a car, isn't going to bothered by the £100 per hour charge. But, if you've just come from a Mondeo where a full dealer service will run around £150, to a demo C200k or a new A class, when you're faced with an invoice for a B service plus pads at £550, you're not going to be too thrilled.

 

[Blobcat]

This is one of the most interesting issues they face I imagine. As I've said previously, dealers will charge what they can get away with. The problem here, is that by moving to a poisiton where cars cost from £15k to £115k, what they can get away with varies wildly depending on who they're dealing with. Clearly, someone who pays 40k or more for a car, isn't going to bothered by the £100 per hour charge. But, if you've just come from a Mondeo where a full dealer service will run around £150, to a demo C200k or a new A class, when you're faced with an invoice for a B service plus pads at £550, you're not going to be too thrilled.

I had this conversation at main Honda dealer on Friday when I took my wifes Accord in for its annual service. £125 inc vat, they also washed and vacuumed it. The Accord is not a Mercedes yet still packed with electronics, their hourly rate is just over £60. The showroom is glass and chrome and 'free' coffee is just as available as at my MB dealer 2 miles up the road. So what is the difference?

 

[jberks]

I had this conversation at main Honda dealer on Friday when I took my wifes Accord in for its annual service. £125 inc vat, they also washed and vacuumed it. The Accord is not a Mercedes yet still packed with electronics, their hourly rate is just over £60. The showroom is glass and chrome and 'free' coffee is just as available as at my MB dealer 2 miles up the road. So what is the difference?

The difference is that Hondas sell in the £8k-£22k price market. There aren't many mercs you can get for £22k - hence their owners have less money (perceived) and their company car lease budgets are lower. I doubt the wage bill is much different and whilst the interior of the showroom may be a lot more expensive, we are only talking about a few thousand in overall cost - so - it's what they can get away with!
Case in point - not sure but I belive my Indie charges around £45 per hour - same work, same parts less than half the hourly charge - they can if they want to!