No towing with a 2016 E220 AMG Estate?

[turbopete]

1 and 2 are the axle weights. it seems to be not uncommon to find that cars tell you to refer to the owners manual for towing weights. I know many cars, once they moved away from vin 'plates' to the stickers, often didn't have the towing capacity on. some didn't even list the axle weights.

 

[Ken_R]

Hi there
I can confirm that the plate inside driver's door says:
<VIN>
2410 kg
--- kg
1- 1090 kg
2- 1320 kg

I have a feeling that 1 is unbraked and 2 is braked towing weight.

I think those are the Max axle weights. 1090kg for the front. 1320kg for the rear. Add them together and you get the MGW of 2410kg.

I'll stand to be corrected.......

 

[woodley_bob]

Did any of you see the previous thread on this topic - was 5 yrs ago now when the W212 was new, but think there were still some issues even then with the Sport models:
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=61263
I am going on the assumption it will be OK to at least put a bike carrier on the tow bar I have. Not planning on doing caravan towing.

 

[Ken_R]

I am going on the assumption it will be OK to at least put a bike carrier on the tow bar I have. Not planning on doing caravan towing.

Didn't see it but a bike carrier should be fine. All you are doing is loading your axle weight (rear).

The missing value would have been what used to be known as the MTW (Maximum Train Weight), which then became MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass), and which is now the GTW (Gross Train Weight), although they may have renamed it yet again.

Edit: Perhaps those should be in a different order, but the principle remains.

 

[Ken_R]

What he said ^^^ get something in writing immediately to the seller, clearly stating your reasons for rejection.

I would suggest to the OP that in order to 'evidence' reasons for rejection, that they contact the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (formerly VOSA).

These are the people that test HGV's, downrate HGV's (when the owner/operator chooses to fit smaller tyres), and examine Kit Cars, Imported Vehicles, etc.

Send them an email with a photo of the label. They are the ultimate authority on such matters. It may well turn out that, for a fee, they may examine the vehicle and determine a Maximum Train Weight (and issue documentation accordingly).

If that not be the case, then the OP has ‘evidence’ that the vehicle was not suited to the use for which it was purchased. In essence, Not of Merchandisable Quality, as per the Sale of Goods Act.

Subscribing to an Ex-Pats site (France), there are numerous times where contributors with older Camper Vans, wishing to re-register, have had to have them examined by the French equivalent. I think it is called 'Driell' or similar.

Alternatively, if the OP is passing an HGV Testing Centre, just call in and ask to speak to the staff. They don't bite - well, not very often.

 

[keefysher]

The online owners manual is here:
http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/manual-cars/ba/cars/w212/en/manual_base.shtml

Go to button 'T' at top row, scroll to towing a trailer, listed is the braked / unbraked load, the rear axle load, automatic, manual, estate, saloon, engine type.

The list on the left give 'technical data', 'identification plates'.

Worth bookmarking this resource for future reference.

Permissible trailer load, braked (at a minimum gradient-climbing capability of 12 % from a standstill): Estate Automatic E 220 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY 2100Kg.
Permissible trailer load, unbraked 750 kg
Maximum drawbar noseweight (the drawbar noseweight is not included in the trailer load) 84 kg
Permissible rear axle load when towing a trailer Estate Automatic 1480Kg

As you haven't fully identified your car in respect of the owners manual description I assume it is a E220 CDI BlueEfficiency model estate with automatic transmission.

There is a towbar illustrated as well as mounting positions on the chassis.

When I was researching tow bars, I contacted a company in Leamington Spa called motabars.co.uk e-mail: steve@motabars.co.uk Very helpful.

HTH

 

[keefysher]

Bit more digging brings up this:

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/car-towing-weight-and-width-limits

As usual with government information, as clear as mud.

What is on the V5?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

The online owners manual is here:
http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/manual-cars/ba/cars/w212/en/manual_base.shtml

Go to button 'T' at top row, scroll to towing a trailer, listed is the braked / unbraked load, the rear axle load, automatic, manual, estate, saloon, engine type.

The list on the left give 'technical data', 'identification plates'.

Worth bookmarking this resource for future reference.

Permissible trailer load, braked (at a minimum gradient-climbing capability of 12 % from a standstill): Estate Automatic E 220 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY 2100Kg.
Permissible trailer load, unbraked 750 kg
Maximum drawbar noseweight (the drawbar noseweight is not included in the trailer load) 84 kg
Permissible rear axle load when towing a trailer Estate Automatic 1480Kg

As you haven't fully identified your car in respect of the owners manual description I assume it is a E220 CDI BlueEfficiency model estate with automatic transmission.

There is a towbar illustrated as well as mounting positions on the chassis.

When I was researching tow bars, I contacted a company in Leamington Spa called motabars.co.uk e-mail: steve@motabars.co.uk Very helpful.

HTH

I have a 212 E class 2014 sales brochure which confirms the above and shows a tow bar option factory fitted

 

[k127]

Thanks for all the responses, I stopped getting the notifications of replies for some reason.

I have spoken to DVSA. Verbally over the phone they confirmed that the VIN MUST show a GTW for any towing to be legal in the vehicle. Apparently in the event of an accident while towing the driver would have been expected to refer to the VIN when setting off to ensure the trailer did not exceed permitted allowances. No GTW on the VIN means the driver cannot check. However the person I spoke to recommended exactly as has been suggested here - an email to the VOSA tech dept with a pic of the VIN to clarify. The auto response I got on Friday suggested a 10 day wait for a reply... From what I have been told by them so far combined with the fitter's knowledge it seems that it doesn't matter what the manufacturer's handbook says though - this car cannot tow while it displays that VIN.

This is pretty clear here - https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/car-towing-weight-and-width-limits where it says "If your VIN plate doesn’t list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing."

I have a friendly motoring journalist now investigating, what he's found out so far backs up the above. Essentially the car may have been mis-sold as being able to tow when VOSA have not given type approval. It may just be that VOSA have been a bit slow to approve the slightly-revised AMG bodykit for this model but still the cars can't tow until that's sorted and shouldn't have been sold without drivers being made aware of this and offered an alternative. He's trying to get a formal response from Mercedes today and an article will follow (unless there's a simple explanation, but we haven't found one yet).

So far my local dealer has been properly crap and is still refusing to acknowledge the car may have been mis-sold, or to take any responsibility for the costs I'm now incurring while I don't have a towing vehicle. So I hope the journalist does his worst!

 

[Rappey69]

I would like to point out there is a big difference between
"you should not use your vehicle for towing" and
"you cannot use your vehicle for towing" ?
As i,ve already stated, I have a vehicle that is fully road legal yet the V5c has omitted many details, because it was registered by a msva test for a plg vehicle.. does not make it illegal to use though !
A car is homologated in whatever european country which give type approval to be used in each country. I cant see that vosa can do anything other than comment with their opinion...
Dvla "interpret" legislation, but their "interpretation" can sometimes go against the eu law which should be uniform for each country..
Ie. The eu law clearly states my vehicle should not have a front number plate yet dvla say i should.. ?
Now if i were to be pulled over then it would have to go to a court of law to be decided..
I had some tyres that were E11 marked.. They were not even round.. many other people also had the same problem . Turns out the DoT are not interested as it is holland that type approves E11 so has to be taken up with them ?
I would find it hard to believe that m/b could produce an estate car that was not approved to tow, even if a plate is missing that info (like mine).
It is against the law to fit a part to a vehicle that would make it unroadworthy/illegal so why would mb have a genuine towbar for that vehicle..
I think its just lots of red tape getting in your way..
Will be very interesting to hear the outcome though..

 

[k127]

Rappey69 thanks for your response, I don't personally know whether the wording on the DVSA website is legally enforceable but the fitter seems to think so.

I suspect that in the event of an accident, possibly not even one during towing, the insurance company would use that statement to wriggle out of any claim?

 

[Rappey69]

Im just throwing stuff in that i have learnt over the years... All adds to a discussion !

 

[k127]

Mercedes have today given a statement to the journalist investigating -

______________________________
This is a specific issue to do with the way that CO2 is measured, and the vehicle’s Certificate of Conformity (CoC). This changed last September EU-wide.

A result of this is that the E 220 Estate Night Edition has a different CO2 (and more importantly therefore a different CoC) if it has a tow bar, which puts it into a different weight category. The only way in which the vehicle is legally allowed to tow is if it has the factory-fit tow bar (which also raises the official CO2 from 130 to 133 g/km).

See http://tools.mercedes-benz.co.uk/current/passenger-cars/e-brochures/e-class-estate.pdf (p34 and p55).

It’s particularly unfortunate that this affects a vehicle which is often used for towing and – while the E 220 Estate ends production this month – we are aware that it affects customers who may not have been aware of this issue (and who therefore did not order a factory-fit tow bar). The only way to alter an individual vehicle’s CoC would be to get an individual type approval.

Our customer services team would be happy to speak with (K127) to discuss possible options. They can be contacted on 0345 120 6212.
_________________________________________


So this model is being mis-sold. I've spoken to customer services who knew nothing, but have raised a case. Seems like a pretty massive cock-up to me.

 

[woodley_bob]

Hmm... interesting post on the need for IVA. Good detective work there k127. Cost of that seems to be nearly £500. Will follow this with interest to see what you find out.

 

[keefysher]

Mercedes have today given a statement to the journalist investigating -

______________________________
This is a specific issue to do with the way that CO2 is measured, and the vehicle’s Certificate of Conformity (CoC). This changed last September EU-wide.

A result of this is that the E 220 Estate Night Edition has a different CO2 (and more importantly therefore a different CoC) if it has a tow bar, which puts it into a different weight category. The only way in which the vehicle is legally allowed to tow is if it has the factory-fit tow bar (which also raises the official CO2 from 130 to 133 g/km).

See http://tools.mercedes-benz.co.uk/current/passenger-cars/e-brochures/e-class-estate.pdf (p34 and p55).

It’s particularly unfortunate that this affects a vehicle which is often used for towing and – while the E 220 Estate ends production this month – we are aware that it affects customers who may not have been aware of this issue (and who therefore did not order a factory-fit tow bar). The only way to alter an individual vehicle’s CoC would be to get an individual type approval.

Our customer services team would be happy to speak with (K127) to discuss possible options. They can be contacted on 0345 120 6212.
_________________________________________


So this model is being mis-sold. I've spoken to customer services who knew nothing, but have raised a case. Seems like a pretty massive cock-up to me.

Hmm... interesting post on the need for IVA. Good detective work there k127. Cost of that seems to be nearly £500. Will follow this with interest to see what you find out.

I struggle to see that it is an individual vehicle issue, it's a raft of vehicles on the road across Europe. MB know which ones they are and the relevant information required to obtain a TNC, concession, whatever the authorities need. A conversation with the relevant persons by MB Corporate should get this resolved. Not a protracted e-mail correspondence. Whatever happened to picking the phone up??

I suggest you use twitter to inform MB Germany. MB CS will almost immediately respond as they don't like social meed ya exploding.

If the solution is a retro fitted factory fitted tow bar (it's the same item if it is fitted afterwards than on the line), so be it. Ask MB CS to involve Gary Sanders special representative at MB UK.

MB are well aware of their p155 poor performance with tow bars.

This is in reality a tick box exercise, nothing more.

I had an issue with an imported vehicle last year. A strong letter to the authorities illustrating the other 30,000 imported with the range of VIN numbers soon got it sorted.

I would expect you only pay the fitting charge for an OEM tow bar, MB Corporate to free issue the tow bar to the dealer. They are probably in stock. Been there, done that with my W221 tow bar last year.

 

[mikestrivens]

...
So this model is being mis-sold. I've spoken to customer services who knew nothing, but have raised a case. Seems like a pretty massive cock-up to me.

Seems like the salesman doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Where have we seen that before?

 

[Scoob]

Interesting how the "issue" is that a tow bar pushes the car into a different tax group, so tow bar has be be added as an MB option in order to avoid all this hassle.

This is similar to my car, in that it has 18" wheels with a certain tyre width fitted from the factory. If it'd been spec'd with the 17" wheel option, it would have fallen into a slightly lower tax group. As such, if I'd bought it with 17" wheels, then fitted 18" wheels myself I'd probably be breaking some law.

You can bet however if I fitted the "lower co2" wheels now, I'd never get my tax lowered lol.

Best of luck to OP getting this resolved.

Scoob.

 

[k127]

Saga continues. Car definitely can't tow, quite a few BlueTec models that can't, but you won't find that in writing anywhere useful. The mis-communication within Merc has been absolutely shockingly poor. Several customers service reps and the dealer have all repeatedly told me to go ahead and tow - I've now found out that towing is definitely illegal with this model and have even found cases of drivers being caught out after an accident. The manufacturer's word is not the final say on it.

Worst thing is they're now arguing that because I didn't make towing an explicit condition of sale they won't resolve the issue (which in itself is arguable), despite the fact that is patently obvious they mis-communicated the car's towing ability.

 

[Naraic]

Take it public...Watchdog.

 

[k127]

Already on it, but in the meantime I wonder how many drivers are out there towing illegally, and how many are signing contracts of sale not knowing this. Even the media kits are misleading, no one has been told there's a long list of Merc estates that cannot tow.