Remap - how much is TOO much?

[Noddy 99]

Update: replacing the lambda sensor didn't make any difference and the guy refused to give me a free re-test on the dyno. The car has started to run more smoothly again, even before the change of sensor, but I still don't know how many bhp I've actually got - I suspect it's still less than the 260bhp I was expecting.

Given my recent trouble and not knowing how many bhp I've got, I've decided to have the current remap removed and to take it to a new place. Profile Tuning of Shrewsbury will give me a before-and-after dyno test + a Stage 1 customised map for £300. They get rave reviews on the net.

Fingers crossed that this saga will soon come to a happy conclusion...

 

[s5tuart]

Update: replacing the lambda sensor didn't make any difference and the guy refused to give me a free re-test on the dyno. The car has started to run more smoothly again, even before the change of sensor, but I still don't know how many bhp I've actually got - I suspect it's still less than the 260bhp I was expecting.

Given my recent trouble and not knowing how many bhp I've got, I've decided to have the current remap removed and to take it to a new place. Profile Tuning of Shrewsbury will give me a before-and-after dyno test + a Stage 1 customised map for £300. They get rave reviews on the net.

Fingers crossed that this saga will soon come to a happy conclusion...

Stage 1 should be exciting!!

 

[Noddy 99]

Stage 1 should be exciting!!

Well, that's the lowest one and probably the best value for amateur throttle-squirters like me. Anything above that and you start throwing money down for increasingly marginal gains.

 

[M80]

Update: replacing the lambda sensor didn't make any difference and the guy refused to give me a free re-test on the dyno. The car has started to run more smoothly again, even before the change of sensor, but I still don't know how many bhp I've actually got - I suspect it's still less than the 260bhp I was expecting.

Given my recent trouble and not knowing how many bhp I've got, I've decided to have the current remap removed and to take it to a new place. Profile Tuning of Shrewsbury will give me a before-and-after dyno test + a Stage 1 customised map for £300. They get rave reviews on the net.

Fingers crossed that this saga will soon come to a happy conclusion...

It would be interesting for you to learn of the after result return to previous. If you allow for long enough to assess remap post demap.
I think.

 

[Noddy 99]

It would be interesting for you to learn of the after result return to previous. If you allow for long enough to assess remap post demap.
I think.

Yeah, it'll go back to stock which SHOULD be 190bhp (or thereabouts - it's 12 yrs old). It'll be tested at that point to establish a baseline.

If I had my time all over again, I'd only have a remap done at a place with a rolling road. Not so I can brag in the pub but so I don't make false assumptions about how many bhp it's going in with. You see, my remap promised an increase from 190 to 260bhp but what if it's way below 190 to start with?

Anyway, we'll soon find out...

 

[M80]

While I'm impressed enough with our 2.1 211, the 2.1 Viano would feel better for more oomph. It doesn't lack enough for me to complain but I feel easier low end grunt might actually save me fuel when hauling up our hills. It being an easier drive would improve the driving pleasure also. So you're comparative outcome is of interest.

A couple of years ago I had a remap, for different reasons, on our previous V6 CDI Viano. I couldn't feel any difference. It didn't feel sports like before or after.

 

[Noddy 99]

OK; I'm HOPING this is the final installment in this long-running saga...

The previous 2 remaps which I've had removed were both off-the-shelf, generic maps. This time I've gone to former rally driver, Ellis McMillan, at Profile Tuning in Shrewsbury. He offers a before-and-after dyno test and a BESPOKE map for £300 which, on paper at least, is astonishing value.

Anyway, the first run revealed that my car was a bit low on torque but was putting out 186bhp. That means that in 12 years and 98000 miles, it has only lost c.2bhp!

After Ellis worked his magic, it's now putting out 290bhp and 560nm!

Driving home, it was extremely smooth and potent. I'm not going to make TOO many judgments TOO early but it seems very promising at this point.

And no - he HASN'T over-cooked it: he says he never pushes the envelope as it starts to over-heat and plume out black smoke...

 

[Snake Charmer]

Do you have a copy of the torque curve before and after? That would be interesting to see.

 

[alexanderfoti]

Yes, the graph tells much more than the peak numbers

 

[Noddy 99]

 

[alexanderfoti]

Smoothing is a bit high or the rr is too fast for enough info, but if you feel it's better then it's good!

 

[Noddy 99]

Smoothing is a bit high or the rr is too fast for enough info, but if you feel it's better then it's good!

Yeah; the guy's a professional dyno-tuner. He doesn't do anything else. He won't do you an MOT or investigate that knock coming from the suspension... He just does dyno-tunes all day every day and sells his maps to third parties.

He was constantly updating his map in real time and I saw him reacting to data coming up on screen so I am struggling to believe anyone could have done it better. Remember: he said that my car was DOWN on torque when I took it in so to get it from 328nm to 560nm is a work of real alchemy...

I'll give it a week before drawing any final conclusions but the drive home was smooth and rapid.

 

[alexanderfoti]

Yeah; the guy's a professional dyno-tuner. He doesn't do anything else. He won't do you an MOT or investigate that knock coming from the suspension... He just does dyno-tunes all day every day and sells his maps to third parties.

He was constantly updating his map in real time and I saw him reacting to data coming up on screen so I am struggling to believe anyone could have done it better. Remember: he said that my car was DOWN on torque when I took it in so to get it from 328nm to 560nm is a work of real alchemy...

I'll give it a week before drawing any final conclusions but the drive home was smooth and rapid.

Keep in mind my comments where only regarding the graph itself, not the tuning.

 

[Mr Greedy]

The improvements looking on the graph look good. Nice and smooth and torque and power where you need them.

I won't dig out the link, but there was a lower displacement Merc put up on here by GAD that showed a peak figure (can't remember if power or torque) right at the top end end a roller coaster of curve variation to get there. That peak figure hit the Merc stated figure.

After a remap, all smoother out, more torque and power, and looking more like your data on the chart.

Before and after rolling road would be essential for me too, as how on earth can anyone compare what's been done. Buying second hand the car might already be remapped already, so worth checking before even starting.

 

[Noddy 99]

Keep in mind my comments where only regarding the graph itself, not the tuning.

Yeah; sorry. I've been expecting someone to turn up and tell me how I SHOULD have got it done and I wrongly thought your post was expressing that sentiment.

Sorry again.

 

[Snake Charmer]

I would be pleased with that torque improvement, hills and towing will not be a problem!

 

[Droverunner]

>>>on our previous V6 CDI Viano. I couldn't feel any difference. It didn't feel sports like before or after.

Really enjoying this thread.

I guess it's all about expectations and perception of performance but our 3.0CDi Viano feels brisk until it's boxy shape hits a wall of air a bit above the motorway limit. After reading your comment I was out and did a rough 0-60 test which came in at 9.1secs which I think is thereabouts. If for £300 or less I could have it mapped to 275hp or so with a total assurance I'd not have any hassles re driveability, heavy fuel consumption or reliability I'd probably have it done... but I'm too nervous I'd get unlucky and as it's currently a brilliant drive I'll leave it as-is I think.

 

[M80]

In fairness before I gave up on the V6 Viano I diagnosed that it was passing oil, somewhere. Really that was the reason for my saying enough is enough after far too much effort chasing my tail with it. The remap was the last attempt to resolve what had been assumed to be an ECU issue of continually regenerating.

Anyways I've asked Profile in Shrewsbury for their figures on remapping the 651 2.1 Viano.
Presently at 163 horses and 360 N/m.
The eco could become 188 and 400 respectively, they state a possible but to be taken with a little salt 25% fuel improvement.

The power map could become 208 horses and 445 N/m, and a fantastic possible and salty 20% fuel improvement.

Their price is less than the £300 but I've yet to ask if that includes rolling road comparison.

As I would at some point like to fit the V6 CDI diff, for lower cruising revs of a tad more than 10% improvement the power map might be favourite at approx 24% more torque, so around 14% more useable umph.
But I intend to have a chat as I am happy with optimum responses up to 2k revs, and interested to see what their engineers say regarding that.
My other thoughts are toward achieving earlier gear changes, certainly in 1 and 2, more torque may do that anyway w/o having to remap the TCU.

I'm busy and in no rush so I'm looking forward to a later appraisal from Noddy.

 

[Noddy 99]

"Their price is less than the £300 but I've yet to ask if that includes rolling road comparison."

Yes: £200-ish for a tune; £300-ish for a before-and-after dyno and tune. I've now come very much around to the way of thinking that a tune without a dyno is just hit-and-hope.

While I was at Profile, I got chatting to bloke who had had his (Vauxhall) van taken from 75bhp to 125bhp. He was getting a LOT of satisfaction from startling other drivers in the traffic light grand prix. I'm not interested in that, myself - I just want smoothness and effortless overtaking out on the open road. As for fuel economy, the lighter touch on the throttle SHOULD bring a dividend but I've never seen an improvement in practice. You spend all your time giving it the beans just because you can...

I'm off to Manchester tomorrow so I'll get a chance to give it a good test.

 

[M80]

I'm off to Manchester tomorrow so I'll get a chance to give it a good test.

I'm doing a fair amount of driving in M/cr tomorrow, I'll keep an eye out for your rear wheel tyre dust.

They've quoted £250, so I need to clarify.