Replacement strut, who has a good eye

[Botus]

I hope this goes well, I think OP has valid point asked for advice got a few doubters but nothing concrete to say run away, takes a punt...

as for Merc dev and no way could you better it, depends what you want
if ride is highest priority then could take a while to get steel spring and damper set up to match but doable. If its handling that's priority then just about anything would be better.

I don't buy it works better for the total package. I'm far closer in thinking they fit this stuff to make money post warranty period. If we want to fix ride on cars we need to throw away mech anti roll bars.
I was going to add air systems are and have always been a joke and never work on motorbikes.... but the latest motorcross bikes are heading this way... but every ride you must manually adjust 2 different air chambers

 

[Craiglxviii]

I hope this goes well, I think OP has valid point asked for advice got a few doubters but nothing concrete to say run away, takes a punt...

as for Merc dev and no way could you better it, depends what you want
if ride is highest priority then could take a while to get steel spring and damper set up to match but doable. If its handling that's priority then just about anything would be better.

I don't buy it works better for the total package. I'm far closer in thinking they fit this stuff to make money post warranty period. If we want to fix ride on cars we need to throw away mech anti roll bars.
I was going to add air systems are and have always been a joke and never work on motorbikes.... but the latest motorcross bikes are heading this way... but every ride you must manually adjust 2 different air chambers

Sorry Botus, you're not close at all. I'm currently working with MB on two projects and can tell you, the approach is always (not necessarily in this exact order but close enough for government work) along these lines:

Design standards and their applicability to the required task;
What performance do they need to get out of the design;
What budget they have out of the projected sales price of the car to get that performance (and if there are other ways of achieving it);
What parts or technology they have available or can be developed to match the requirements;
How well those will cope under market conditions.

Nowhere in the design, layout & planning of a platform does "money from out-of-warranty repairs" come into it, mainly because it's a literal drop in the ocean compared to actual sales.

Now we know that the average life of a car with its first owner is (in Europe) a shade over 8 years. When ABC was introduced it was assumed to be 36 months, thus the system was designed around that with the warranty period being covered accordingly.

 

[Botus]

I read conflicting info on the new 5 series.

One said 3 systems,
steel springs, nasty cheap fixed rate dampers
steel springs, variable damper
air set up

then another,
said no air set up BM think they can do better without.

Personally I think you can. Its simpler, cheaper and better for everything except ride comfort and the gain here is tiny, less than 5%. You could easily get +25% without antiroll bars, probably far greater. You can have the benefits when you need it and missing when you don't. However, reliability concerns me greatly. No doubt its all beautifully designed to fail and here I doubt there'll be any other option than to pay out thousands or bin the car.

Whilst you say you work in design, I'm not buying they don't fully consider post warranty revenue streams. We have gone way past small volume, high cost, long lasting vehicles with large profit margins. Now is mass volume, low margin, with profits mostly coming in designed to fail high tech spares you can only buy from the manu, often needing lots of labour and lots of coding.

You have to consider to get the initial car sold, the blinged up showrooms and free coffee is part funded by repair work. Here another "franchised" company needs to make a large profit... They work together robbing the customer and everyone else is happy.

If I was them, allowed to get away with it and had no morals, I do exactly what they do. Make them more complex and rip them off.

 

[John Laidlaw]

It is shown online as core return amount...

Ah yes but if it's a straight sale they may not pay that rate...let's see

 

[Craiglxviii]

Whilst you say you work in design, I'm not buying they don't fully consider post warranty revenue streams. We have gone way past small volume, high cost, long lasting vehicles with large profit margins. Now is mass volume, low margin, with profits mostly coming in designed to fail high tech spares you can only buy from the manu, often needing lots of labour and lots of coding.

You have to consider to get the initial car sold, the blinged up showrooms and free coffee is part funded by repair work. Here another "franchised" company needs to make a large profit... They work together robbing the customer and everyone else is happy.

If I was them, allowed to get away with it and had no morals, I do exactly what they do. Make them more complex and rip them off.

I don't say I work in design. I DO work in design, specifically technical design engineering. I can tell you that whenthe car is designed, post warranty sales are not factored at all beyond whatever margin is applied between the OEM and the sales networks. Simple as that. Designing a car and then launching series production of it is hard enough without also worrying about how it's repair work will be sold ten years down the line.

You aren't "them" and they neither have nor lack morals. They have a business plan and shareholder opinion to progress against, however I can say that morals do indeed play a part indecision making in the industry.

NB the profit margin on the bigger 220-221 models was in the region of 40% gross at plant. The days of MB struggling for profitability (which means buying sales through giveaway of content) ended in the v early noughties.

 

[tjamesbo]

Presumably these struts are similar to what is fitted to the front and rear of an S211 with airmatic ???? ( rears fiitted to all estates ) I was thinking a 211 with Airmatic would be a nice spec, smoother ride etc. but having read this thread
it seems that they are very expensive to replace and considering the motors I'm looking at are north of 110K then A standard set up at the front ( I'm looking at estates ) is a more desirable spec. Airmatic nice if your buying new and shedding it at 60-80K after a few years ie before it goes wrong .

 

[John Laidlaw]

There are more choices of recon and replacement air struts than ABC which presumably makes the system upkeep less expensive?

 

[DSB SL AMG]

Interesting topic gents...when i worked for VW, on identified full service supplier components and systems were risk and acceptable failure rate was known and understood, it was agreed with suppliers upfront a technical warranty % liability share between them and VW....

Warranty for the stealers is the biggest income stream...for the OEM its leakage of revenue via the back door, which is tracked and counter measured via design/engineering/ supplier process optimizations etc to minimize bad pa, consumer impact and perceived poor quality product...although as long as you get to the 3 year mark

I don't say I work in design. I DO work in design, specifically technical design engineering. I can tell you that whenthe car is designed, post warranty sales are not factored at all beyond whatever margin is applied between the OEM and the sales networks. Simple as that. Designing a car and then launching series production of it is hard enough without also worrying about how it's repair work will be sold ten years down the line.

You aren't "them" and they neither have nor lack morals. They have a business plan and shareholder opinion to progress against, however I can say that morals do indeed play a part indecision making in the industry.

NB the profit margin on the bigger 220-221 models was in the region of 40% gross at plant. The days of MB struggling for profitability (which means buying sales through giveaway of content) ended in the v early noughties.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Interesting topic gents...when i worked for VW, on identified full service supplier components and systems were risk and acceptable failure rate was known and understood, it was agreed with suppliers upfront a technical warranty % liability share between them and VW....

Warranty for the stealers is the biggest income stream...for the OEM its leakage of revenue via the back door, which is tracked and counter measured via design/engineering/ supplier process optimizations etc to minimize bad pa, consumer impact and perceived poor quality product...although as long as you get to the 3 year mark

Pretty much exactly this, some variation OEM to OEM but they're all running the same basic models (all the Euro carmakers anyway).

PQ (perceived quality) as a form of breakdown/ product failure is represented by % failure/ month in service with something like (and this is the variability) 95% on 40MIS, there or thereabouts. That is, 95% of cars will survive to 42 months in service without a single reported fault or breakdown of any type. That is per model too and not averaged across the current production fleet, although how it relates to cars in production in 1999-2000 I cannot say; I suspect it's not a million miles off and I know that pretty much all automakers globally are moving to 60 months in service as their new benchmark.

 

[DSB SL AMG]

Being responsible for advanced program launch quality (OEM & 1st tier programs) i was generally responsible for 0MIS SQA / SQM concerns... although later on when they had complex series production problems i would get 'parachuted' in to suppliers to sought our issues, obviously not on any of my bits as they were always introduced flawlessly

Pretty much exactly this, some variation OEM to OEM but they're all running the same basic models (all the Euro carmakers anyway).

PQ (perceived quality) as a form of breakdown/ product failure is represented by % failure/ month in service with something like (and this is the variability) 95% on 40MIS, there or thereabouts. That is, 95% of cars will survive to 42 months in service without a single reported fault or breakdown of any type. That is per model too and not averaged across the current production fleet, although how it relates to cars in production in 1999-2000 I cannot say; I suspect it's not a million miles off and I know that pretty much all automakers globally are moving to 60 months in service as their new benchmark.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Being responsible for advanced program launch quality (OEM & 1st tier programs) i was generally responsible for 0MIS SQA / SQM concerns... although later on when they had complex series production problems i would get 'parachuted' in to suppliers to sought our issues, obviously not on any of my bits as they were always introduced flawlessly

Well we all know the concerns are always with suppliers and never, ever with the plant eh DSB

 

[Submariner1]

Well just been quoted c1200 for a new strut after discount and just over 1000 for a recon from MB. Craig was your price definitely for a rear? Similarly Submariner please ?

Sorry John only just saw this my quote was for a front £831 less 10% = £897.48
With VAT.
I think the rears are the same price.

Note this also just comes with the little pipe that screw into the strut.
The pipe on the other side of the push fit, that goes to the control block is about £87. Note the left is more expensive about £97. Its longer on my car.