SAVE THE PLANET BUT AT WHAT COST TO OTHER MB OWNERS

[Alastairp]

Plagiarised post from elsewhere and slightly modified for relevance:

Humans are not responsible for directly emitting water vapour in quantities sufficient to change its concentration in the atmosphere. However, the scientific evidence suggests that the warming caused by man-made emissions of CO2 and other greenhouse gases is increasing the amount of water vapour in the air by boosting the rate of evaporation.

Unlike CO2, which can persist in the air for centuries, water vapour cycles through the atmosphere quickly, evaporating from the oceans and elsewhere before coming back down as rain or snow, especially here in Scotland where there is no hosepipe ban. Since the rate of evaporation rises with temperature, the amount of water vapour in the air at any one time (and the amount of warming it causes) is strongly related to the amount of other greenhouse gases in the air.

This is an example of a positive feedback loop: humans release CO2, which causes warming, which boosts evaporation, which in turn amplifies the warming. Indeed, scientists believe that evaporation is the most important positive feedback loop in the global climate system, doubling or tripling the sensitivity of the climate to CO2 emissions.

 

[C16RKC]

I think it's difficult to argue humans have not had an effect on the planet. This graph puts forward a good argument:

But I don't think whether humans are causing global warming, and if that's even a problem, is the issue here. It can't be proved without a shadow of a doubt either way; but we would be foolish to not do something about it given it seems likely we are causing a problem.

I think the issue is that governments are conveniently ignoring the real culprits (energy generation, industry, deforestation etc.) and taking advantage of the situation to increase taxation revenues. This means we are paying more to run our cars, for effectively little reason.

Meanwhile environmentalists likewise seem disinterested in pin-pointing the real causes/solutions, and also seem happiest to just bully the motorist as though it is all their fault (as demonstrated by the idiots who let air out of 4x4 tyres last year, and the prats who vandalised petrol pumps earlier this year).

It seems that protestors and environmentalists do not know what they are talking about, and for that reason nothing worthwhile is really happening.

(I accept that electric cars are good for city centers, as they reduce the airbourn polution in the immediate vicinity, but that's not global warming).

 

[C16RKC]

Confession - I drive an EV.

As a side comment, while I love V8's and would miss the sounds and drama of a powerful Petrol car, I actually think EVs are really cool too. I think the quietness and reliability of an EV is incredibly desirable; I hope there will be a lot of desirable EV luxury cars and EV supercars one day.

But out of curiosity, which EV do you own? - and more importantly, has it saved you money compared to the ICE alternative you might have purchased instead?

I ask because I have considered an EV many times, I would love one. But I can never make the figures work.

The high purchase/lease costs of a used Tesla Model S completely eclipsed the fuel saving when I was shopping for a luxury car last year, and it was much more cost effective to buy the BMW 7 series Diesel I ended up with. In the same way cheap small EVs like the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe still worked out more expensive for me that the Citroen C3 I bought, due to their higher purchase costs.

On the other hand... I may have all my calcs wrong, and it might be that electric cars are cheaper to run that I think... after all I have never actually owned an EV.

As an example... these are the costs of my Citroen C3, based on my 24,099 miles per year:

Citroen C3 1.6Hdi Airdream
Purchase price £2,000 (I paid £1,500 but it needed an immediate £500 service!).
Fuel type Diesel
Economy 78mpg (proven using Fuelly)
Fuel cost per month £207.91 (based on £1.799 per litre)

Then this is how a Nissan Leaf worked out.

Nissan Leaf 24KWhr
Purchase price £4,500
Fuel type Electric
Economy 3.6 miles per KwHr (google states 80 miles on a usable capacity of 22kWh)
Fuel cost per month £245.96 (based on £0.38 per kW)

Have I done anything that looks obviously wrong?

 

[00slk]

As a side comment, while I love V8's and would miss the sounds and drama of a powerful Petrol car, I actually think EVs are really cool too. I think the quietness and reliability of an EV is incredibly desirable; I hope there will be a lot of desirable EV luxury cars and EV supercars one day.

But out of curiosity, which EV do you own? - and more importantly, has it saved you money compared to the ICE alternative you might have purchased instead?

I ask because I have considered an EV many times, I would love one. But I can never make the figures work.

The high purchase/lease costs of a used Tesla Model S completely eclipsed the fuel saving when I was shopping for a luxury car last year, and it was much more cost effective to buy the BMW 7 series Diesel I ended up with. In the same way cheap small EVs like the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe still worked out more expensive for me that the Citroen C3 I bought, due to their higher purchase costs.

On the other hand... I may have all my calcs wrong, and it might be that electric cars are cheaper to run that I think... after all I have never actually owned an EV.

As an example... these are the costs of my Citroen C3, based on my 24,099 miles per year:

Citroen C3 1.6Hdi Airdream
Purchase price £2,000 (I paid £1,500 but it needed an immediate £500 service!).
Fuel type Diesel
Economy 78mpg (proven using Fuelly)
Fuel cost per month £207.91 (based on £1.799 per litre)

Then this is how a Nissan Leaf worked out.

Nissan Leaf 24KWhr
Purchase price £4,500
Fuel type Electric
Economy 3.6 miles per KwHr (google states 80 miles on a usable capacity of 22kWh)
Fuel cost per month £245.96 (based on £0.38 per kW)

Have I done anything that looks obviously wrong?

It will be interesting to see others calculations with their EV compared to yous Chris.
I was going to purchase a Smart EV from Brooklands MB, this was nearly 12 years ago as it had a range of 84 miles, that will get me to work and back again, well that's what I thought. MB took me off their list to attend the demonstrator. As I wanted too know the exact range and charging costs for the EV Smart, they beat around the bush, came up with mainly 'we will have to ask someone' in the end I did manage to have them say that I would be lucky to do my return journey on a full charge. Which wasn't too much of an issue because the work place would install a charging point??? Then the £10000 Smart wasn't the full price! You had £3000 on top of that to buy the battery (really!! It's like buying a ICE 'oh sorry sir you can't drive it home, you have to buy the wheels and tyres on top ) or I could least the battery So I was not a suitable purchaser for the EV Smart.......Apparently!
My mate's brother in law has the latest top of the range Tesla, okay it might be around 300 mile range but 90 grand!!! His insurance was a grand on top, then the cost to recharge it. I think I could run the 55 for many many years and still have change from 91g
There is a few EV vehicles that some work colleagues have bought, and say they are great, but when I have asked there daily mileage we are looking 10-25 miles to work and back. They say they don't charge them up every day, maybe every other day as they can do up to 100miles in that week. However one said that it may not be so good in the winter as using things like head lights, wipers, heater etc uses more battery life. Still they say it's cheaper than there old car to run, 'I don't have to put £38 of petrol in each week' one said. So how much does it really cost to charge your EV at home? We had a proto type EV lorry at work, it has been there for 4 days on charge in the workshops, it has a range of 100 miles, 4 days and it is 60% charged, the workshop haven't enough power to fully charge this EV. The mechanic's have no idea why it was delivered to us, it came on a low loader and was returned on the low loader. The only charging point that will charge this lorry is in Dagenham. The first go at EV vans is in the Coventry Transport Museum, it's taken awhile for them to advance enough to make them viable, well we will see.
I don't mind filling up the Money Pit as a full tank can do 640miles, well so the computer says if I have been on a long journey, 499miles for my work commute, which equals 1 fill every 2 weeks, plus this gives me a chance to find more dents and scratches on the car that weren't there last fill up
Unlike an electric car, I can sell my worn out battery for scrap, what happens to the EV batteries when they expire? I know someone will educate me on my pinions with my story, but I don't own an EV so what I have said must be viewed with a pinch of salt

 

[bembo449]

id wager if most EV owners were completely honest , they dont use their EV in the same care free way they did the ICE car they had before

 

[Hotspur]

No EV sounds like a V8, it doesnt pop bang and crackle from the exhaust when standing still and revved...and neither do EV's sound like rolling thunder when under full acceleration...

You can keep your EV's,...I am happy to pay the tax and fuel costs to run my V8...

P.S. have a new one on order too...to add to my stable when its made and delivered...alongside a classic v12 5.0 I have inbound from Japan...

For me, the more people jumping into EV's is a good thing, all of the ICE cars that I have always wanted are becoming available as their owners switch to EV

 

[Blobcat]

No EV sounds like a V8, it doesnt pop bang and crackle from the exhaust when standing still and revved...and neither do EV's sound like rolling thunder when under full acceleration...

You can keep your EV's,...I am happy to pay the tax and fuel costs to run my V8...

P.S. have a new one on order too...to add to my stable when its made and delivered...alongside a classic v12 5.0 I have inbound from Japan...

For me, the more people jumping into EV's is a good thing, all of the ICE cars that I have always wanted are becoming available as their owners switch to EV

The year is 2030, you have to go to the dealer for a new exhaust as your's is cracked...

 

[5w155t0ny]

In reality, all I would actually do is swap out the faulty cell(s)

Got one question about that small phrase which defenders of EV's seem to conveniently avoid.... how exactly would you dispose of those faulty cells because they cannot be recycled. Would you just take them to the local recycling centre and not worry about it ?

For what it's worth, my personal opinion is that Hydrogen power is going to make a big breakthrough soon.
It's significant that a couple of manufacturers are not putting all their eggs in the EV basket (Toyota being one iirc) and some manufacturers are seemingly very slow to adopt the EV narrative, Ford being one example.
Anyone remember the Hydrogen powered Edge and Ka in "Quantom of Solace"?

 

[Hotspur]

The year is 2030, you have to go to the dealer for a new exhaust as your's is cracked...

View attachment 79580

new exhaust - have one made / fabricated - probably better than OEM anyway...

 

[Blobcat]

new exhaust - have one made / fabricated - probably better than OEM anyway...

You did see the picture didn’t you?

 

[Hotspur]

You did see the picture didn’t you?

Its a audio speaker isnt it?

whilst it may make or can make the same noises, its the visceral feeling of a proper ICE monster as well as the sound that makes it - it's just the evolution and a period that we lived through in our younger days - youngsters or the next generation probably won't get it... they won't lust over a Lambo, or Evo, Scooby, AMG, M Car, Fezza, Mazza...etc as well as the BTCC and F1 cars of our era...or even some of the classics like E-Types, and Gullwings like we do - they have no affiliation to that stuff, but it's in our history, blood and DNA now and it's hard to shake off...since we all thought, when i grow up and have money i'm going to get a xxxxx....so they've been in our lives for all these years and just getting an EV doesn't scratch that itch which we have had for decades....simples.

 

[00slk]

It is sad that I have now gone down to having only 3 V8's, 1 V6, 3 L6's 2 L4's and 1 2 cylinder
But worse of all, I must confess to actually having 2 EV's.........................

 

[Frontstep]

Can anyone explain to me where they think their "100 Renewable Energy" comes from, because it certainly isn't solar or wind.

I can only assume it gets delivered by Unicorn.

 

[Blobcat]

Can anyone explain to me where they think their "100 Renewable Energy" comes from.

Out of the socket in the wall…

 

[Frontstep]

"Narnia" sockets now that makes sense.

 

[Hotspur]

Can anyone explain to me where they think their "100 Renewable Energy" comes from, because it certainly isn't solar or wind.

I can only assume it gets delivered by Unicorn.

Mate, what morning news daily do you read...Disney Times? there is no such thing as a Unicorn....the truth is it will be delivered by non-binary, gender neutral, mermaids...

 

[dry run]

Mate, what morning news daily do you read...Disney Times? there is no such thing as a Unicorn....the truth is it will be delivered by non-binary, gender neutral, mermaids...

I find the "maid" part of mermaid very offensive (well I don't but i'm being outraged on behalf of others that haven't read your post), Please use merperson!!!

 

[Blobcat]

I find the "maid" part of mermaid very offensive (well I don't but i'm being outraged on behalf of others that haven't read your post), Please use merperson!!!

I'm offended at your use of "Person" with regard to an aquatic based organism...

 

[Hotspur]

half human half fish type of organic being that may or may not have a sexual orientation and genitalia and even then whose gender can still be optional regardless of any dominant hormone, chromosome, or .... phallus....or in the absence of one...

 

[5w155t0ny]

half human half fish type of organic being that may or may not have a sexual orientation and genitalia and even then whose gender can still be optional regardless of any dominant hormone, chromosome, or .... phallus....or in the absence of one...

My head hurts