Sugar in engine

[LostKiwi]

Does the S350 CDI engine have a bypass to the filter? This is to defeat any argument from the dealer.

Of course, I realise that if the pump is clogged by sludge, no bypass will help.

They have also said that there is a locking arrangement to the engine oil cap for which only I had the key-- and hence only I could have put the sugar. Another dealer confirmed that there is no such key or lock. I have not heard of such a locking in any vehicle or engine. Any one who knows of such a locking

Almost all engines will use a bypass on the simple basis that dirty oil is better than no oil.
It's usually in the form of a spring loaded poppet valve in or near the filter housing. Under normal circumstances it will be closed and only opens when the pressure differential across the filter reaches a threshold value.

If they claim there is a locking device ask them to show you. I have never heard of any such device on any car ever.

 

[peterws1957]

Almost all engines will use a bypass on the simple basis that dirty oil is better than no oil.
It's usually in the form of a spring loaded poppet valve in or near the filter housing. Under normal circumstances it will be closed and only opens when the pressure differential across the filter reaches a threshold value.

If they claim there is a locking device ask them to show you. I have never heard of any such device on any car ever.

Sounds like the dealer is BSing to cover up something. Probably one of the more bizarre set of dealer "reasons" for a blown motor heard on the forum.
Edit - I wonder if the key they are talking about is the shaped tool to remove the oil filter rather than the oil filler cap? Seems unlikely.

 

[mioba]

The fluted tool for the oil filter housing is just a screw cap essentially with a specific torque setting. No logic in that being lockable at all

 

[SL63 Mark]

I think after six pages, the known facts are these.

1. Car went into ?Mercedes dealership? with blown engine
2. Dealer is blaming "sugar in engine oil"
3. OP has decided to pursue compensation using forum knowledge/expertise

So questions for me are (sorry I may have missed the answers)

1. Why did the car go in for repairs ? Was it engine issues ? If so what were they ?
2. Was this car a newly returned purchase under warranty ?
3. Did the engine let go while in the dealers possession (seems unlikely) or was this a warranty claim ?

Again, sorry if I have missed any of the above, just trying to clarify sequence of events.

 

[Botus]

That is perfectly normal in the pic and no head gasket failure, just general day to day mayo from moisture. In my experience, head gasket failure mayo looks just like this:

View attachment 73518

this is not normal - it is very abnormal - if its not through flood or internal coolant leaks - it shows the car is not being used correctly and its damaging the engine

this (without the fault of flooding or coolant loss) is caused by abuse - where the engine is frequently operated without reaching its standard operating temperature for long enough - I haven't seen this in a healthy engine for 35 years - this bad driving can be exacerbated by an engine breather system that is not operating correctly

the combustion process produces vast quantities of acid, other nasty chemicals and some water - it breaks down the engine oil. Its supposed to be burnt off and re-ingested (via the breather system) leaving the oil to do its job and the engine to survive

a combustion engine in a good environment always hits 80C oil temps for at least 30 minutes every single time its cranked in to life - which is roughly a 10 mile drive, any less is causing premature wear - more is better - its why Taxi's that rarely go cold and seldom do the stop start engine destruction now fitted to many car's, easily do massive mileage

 

[KennyN]

I think after six pages, the known facts are these.

1. Car went into ?Mercedes dealership? with blown engine
2. Dealer is blaming "sugar in engine oil"
3. OP has decided to pursue compensation using forum knowledge/expertise

So questions for me are (sorry I may have missed the answers)

1. Why did the car go in for repairs ? Was it engine issues ? If so what were they ?
2. Was this car a newly returned purchase under warranty ?
3. Did the engine let go while in the dealers possession (seems unlikely) or was this a warranty claim ?

Again, sorry if I have missed any of the above, just trying to clarify sequence of events.

The car was being driven by the garage when the engine seized , why it was at the dealers is still not confirmed as it had not long had a service.

There seemed to be around half the recommended amount of oil in the engine when it was inspected , with no level or pressure warning messages whilst driving to the garage.

OP seems confused as to which version of vehicle he has - 320 or 350.

OP was asking about a special , owner only , key that is required to top up the oil , whilst at the garage a quick look at the filler cap would have confirmed that as B/S.

The "dissolving of sugar" question could have been answered easily by trying to - dissolve some sugar in some of the 4.5L of original engine oil.

Still lots of clarification required to get the actual story.

Wonder who his vehicle is insured with - confused.com.

K

 

[M80]

Any court case is looking shambolic before it starts.
"As my expert witness I would like to refer to this thread on a Mercedes enthusiast forum in the UK."

 

[Manc Rick]

a combustion engine in a good environment always hits 80C oil temps for at least 30 minutes every single time its cranked in to life - which is roughly a 10 mile drive, any less is causing premature wear - more is better - its why Taxi's that rarely go cold and seldom do the stop start engine destruction now fitted to many car's, easily do massive mileage

You clearly have expertise in engines (not just the above but based on some of your other recent contributions). It’s great to have people like you on here.

This is something I have always been conscious of; I will often drive 5-6 miles to get to the supermarket 1 mile away, particularly on cold mornings (which makes me seem eccentric to family members).

I believe the damage is caused by the engine not getting hot enough to evaporate moisture that has presented itself, and not allowing the oil to thin out although there are probably other reasons.

 

[DREAMER NO2]

I read that there was no oil in the engine .Its a main item to check , week to week, or before each long journey, oil and water check . But to many of us owners look at the information screen or the odd warning bulb to see it they have a problem with oil or water that some times dont work .

 

[mioba]

Indeed a big lack of common sense (not even) ability nowadays by not checking things over to identify potential problems.

 

[sausage]

this is not normal - it is very abnormal - if its not through flood or internal coolant leaks - it shows the car is not being used correctly and its damaging the engine

this (without the fault of flooding or coolant loss) is caused by abuse - where the engine is frequently operated without reaching its standard operating temperature for long enough - I haven't seen this in a healthy engine for 35 years - this bad driving can be exacerbated by an engine breather system that is not operating correctly

the combustion process produces vast quantities of acid, other nasty chemicals and some water - it breaks down the engine oil. Its supposed to be burnt off and re-ingested (via the breather system) leaving the oil to do its job and the engine to survive

a combustion engine in a good environment always hits 80C oil temps for at least 30 minutes every single time its cranked in to life - which is roughly a 10 mile drive, any less is causing premature wear - more is better - its why Taxi's that rarely go cold and seldom do the stop start engine destruction now fitted to many car's, easily do massive mileage

Perfectly normal :

Oil cap, mayo residue...

Hi guys, me again lol! Just gone to top up with oil, and on the inside of the oil filler neck, it's got mayo gunk round it. Inside of the cap had a little on too. Iv wiped up best I can and taken for a drive, doesn't appear to have anymore in there. Just worried, as people say this means head...

www.911uk.com

Oil cap gunk, mayo, yellow/white residue and Head Gaskets

The water-cooled 911 and Boxster/Cayman all have remote oil filler necks. Most cars have the oil access directly into the top of the engine (assuming vertical, not boxer), generally via the rocker cover. Because of this outlying filler tube and cap, during cold weather and especially after...

911uk.com

 

[Botus]

two examples of a bad engine breather system and or not reaching normal operating temps for long enough, is not proof of anything

drive a vehicle for 1 to 3 mile trips frequently it will occur - that is not normal driving - it is abuse of the car and your body - if that short a trip, leave the car and get some exercise

 

[KennyN]

I read that there was no oil in the engine .Its a main item to check , week to week, or before each long journey, oil and water check . But to many of us owners look at the information screen or the odd warning bulb to see it they have a problem with oil or water that some times dont work .

Some newer car dont have the ability to manually check the oil level , neither of mine do (did).

The BM is checked using the iDrive screen and the Porker had to be ran for 20+ miles before you can get an oil reading on the display , not a great idea if you dont do the required mileage and dont know how to access the oil level menu - Vehicle -> Settings -> Oil level -> Check oil level , which is a major faff if you are not familiar with the process.

As the Cayenne uses the V6 lump from Audi i purchased a dipstick and fitted that , at least that way i dont need to drive the car for 20 miles before checking the oil level, wonder what genius thought of that idea.

K

 

[tode]

The 221 does have a dipstick . . .

 

[KennyN]

The 221 does have a dipstick . . .

Just the one ?

K

 

[tode]

One or two . . .

 

[Blobcat]

Some newer car dont have the ability to manually check the oil level , neither of mine do (did).

The BM is checked using the iDrive screen and the Porker had to be ran for 20+ miles before you can get an oil reading on the display , not a great idea if you dont do the required mileage and dont know how to access the oil level menu - Vehicle -> Settings -> Oil level -> Check oil level , which is a major faff if you are not familiar with the process.

As the Cayenne uses the V6 lump from Audi i purchased a dipstick and fitted that , at least that way i dont need to drive the car for 20 miles before checking the oil level, wonder what genius thought of that idea.

K

My 911 checks the oil automatically when I first start it - you just turn the key to position 2 and it does a level check.

It also checks when I refuel, by the time you’ve filled and paid it’s showing on the dash.

Only 1 dipstick in a 911 and that’s not in the engine compartment…

 

[KennyN]

My 911 checks the oil automatically when I first start it - you just turn the key to position 2 and it does a level check.

It also checks when I refuel, by the time you’ve filled and paid it’s showing on the dash.

Possibly because mine is a diesel , oil has got to be warm or you get a message saying oil level info currently not available.

Bit of a stupid idea really especially when there is no dipstick. The one from a Q7 fits once you have given the handle a haircut to fit under the engine cover.

K

 

[Blobcat]

Possibly because mine is a diesel

K

My deepest condolences…

 

[Kev555]

looking through this again after reading the first initial posts something smells fishy but also tastes sweet here.