VW in the dock...

[DSB SL AMG]

$18billion possible lawsuit this could break them...brand reputation and integrity shattered, I wonder which business exec they will nail for this to carry the can!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...scheme-exposed-as-u-s-weighs-criminal-charges

 

[Frontstep]

I saw this on the BBC and understood it to mean VW had purposely engineered their cars to give lower pollution values than they actually had, in effect it cheated during its "exams" a logarithm kicked in when standardised pollution cycle testing was carried out,
I think I haven't understood it properly

The car in effect held its breath during its testing ?

 

[PovertySpec]

I saw this on the BBC and understood it to mean VW had purposely engineered their cars to give lower pollution values than they actually had, in effect it cheated during its "exams" a logarithm kicked in when standardised pollution cycle testing was carried out,
I think I haven't understood it properly

No, that's it in a nutshell.

How the regulatory bodies legally reversed engineered the proprietary software to discover that well known trick is another sideshow.

 

[DSB SL AMG]

If I was to hazard a guess I would bet on a disgruntled VW insider making a few phone calls to the authority to uncover this scam....either way its business fraud!

No, that's it in a nutshell.

How the regulatory bodies legally reversed engineered the proprietary software to discover that well known trick is another sideshow.

 

[Frontstep]

No, that's it in a nutshell.

How the regulatory bodies legally reversed engineered the proprietary software to discover that well known trick is another sideshow.

I was thinking that was a bit obvious and I was missing something.
Upon testing the car and this is the bit where I flounder, wouldn't the cars software need to adopt another line of code giving at least a clue to the tester as the car adjusted its parameters from rich to lean in laymans terms ?

 

[C350Carl]

How does the car know it's being tested?

 

[stwat]

How does the car know it's being tested?

Lack of steering input was one way, I read.

 

[turbopete]

the way that article reads, theres more than VW at this as well. MB were mentioned to overstate MPG by up to 40%, asian manufacturers (hyundai, kia etc) had also been fined, even America's own Ford had issues, as well as some truck manufacturers who werent mentioned.
this article covers the USA but they suspect its happening here too. i personally believe ALL emissions tests/mpg figures should be tested in 'real world' situations, not in a lab or on a closed, fairly wind proofed test track, and that the cars should be tested independently and repeatedly, from time to time, by pulling a random car from the production line or from a dealership, having the tyres etc set to the recommended pressures etc and tested in a manner that they were tested by the 'road testers' in the article

 

[Naraic]

If I was to hazard a guess I would bet on a disgruntled VW insider making a few phone calls to the authority to uncover this scam....either way its business fraud!

Indeed...which begs the question, if it is true, why on earth would they risk their reputation and maybe even their viability on people "keeping quiet". It doesn't add up.

 

[DSB SL AMG]

Remember it could have also been a well planted 'whistle blower', either way and regardless if this test emission 'practice' does occur with other OEM's I am sure they will make an example of VW to ensure this is stamped out once and for all...

Indeed...which begs the question, if it is true, why on earth would they risk their reputation and maybe even their viability on people "keeping quiet". It doesn't add up.

 

[Rory]

How the regulatory bodies legally reversed engineered the proprietary software to discover that well known trick is another sideshow.

A couple of VW's were tested by a University and produced much worse than expected results.

For a year, VW denied it was any problem with the cars (doesn't that sound familiar ) but then they were threatened with not being able to sell any VAG cars at all in the US in 2016 unless they could account for the difference. At that point they coughed.


I can't imagine how they're not going to get absolutely spanked for this. I've seen comments from engineers in other automotive firms who say everyone in the business is just gobsmacked at what VAG have done.

 

[turbopete]

i feel it could lead to the end of them selling diesels (at least, until its sorted) in america, for the time being. i also feel that now these 'issues' have come to light then there will be some 'real world' testing carried out in other markets. and if similar things are happening then there could be huge repercussions for the whole industry, not just VAG

 

[DSB SL AMG]

Agreed, the authority will make an example of VW to ensure that other OEM's tow the line...probable that this issue has been going on for some time, needed robust evidence and data to convict, which it now sounds like they may have.

i feel it could lead to the end of them selling diesels (at least, until its sorted) in america, for the time being. i also feel that now these 'issues' have come to light then there will be some 'real world' testing carried out in other markets. and if similar things are happening then there could be huge repercussions for the whole industry, not just VAG

 

[C350Carl]

Thing is if other Marques have been doing it (Mercedes for example with the up to 40% exaggeration) then it could, as said, have repercussions for the whole industry.

It is about time though that real world testing was done. Even so it will still be subjective. The way one person drives will differ from the next. But it will be a better comparison than the 'lab simulation'.

I wonder if they were adding Two Stroke?

 

[turbopete]

very true Carl, but giving the buying public in europe an MPG reading sitting on an autobahn at, say, 80mph (or an equivalent real world figure, maybe 120km/h or whatever they decide) means more to buyers than a car in a lab with its tyres blown up to maybe 60psi, on a set of rollers, not dragging the vehicle weight, wind resistance etc making it seem amazing on fuel!

my car NEVER gets driven indoors, on rollers with no form of drag and silly high pressures in the tyres, so where is the relevance in testing this way?
also it WILL affect the CO2 readings for the 'official' tests for tax etc, surely?

 

[L John]

... also it WILL affect the CO2 readings for the 'official' tests for tax etc, surely?

My guess is the fine they get will include that, so there will be no additional tax for the owners.

Maybe the affected cars will be recalled for a software upgrade to reduce the pollution.
As it's estimated their cars are 10 to 40 times the legal limit when driven on the road, it should be easy to reduce the pollutants.
Possibly affecting MPG or performance to do a cleaner burn.

I wonder if this is why a lot of diesels smoke so bad on the road, possibly passing MOT tests then smoking once out on the road?

 

[turbopete]

seems its not just VW getting fined for things in the USA. just seen this today (cut and pasted from my BT newsfeed) about GM getting fined for ignition switch related faults. i wonder if build quality would improve if we had these types of laws/regulations in Europe? from what little ive read, cars there stand up to many more years use than ours and 300k isnt really considered abnormal mileage on older cars!



General Motors in the US is facing a penalty of 900 million dollars (£577 million) for fitting faulty ignition switches to cars 13 years ago.

The problem came to light after a huge recall of affected vehicles that showed the ignition switches in many of GM's cars would ignore or delay important safety messages due to an internal fault.

Although the final sum of the penalty is yet to be decided by the US Attorney, a figure of 900 million dollars has been put forward and the government's legal department will insist the fine is paid out of the company's third quarter earnings of 2015.

The penalty comes on top of GM paying out more than 600 million dollars (£385 million) in compensation to those drivers with cars affected by the faulty ignition switches.

As part of the deal to settle the case, General Motors will avoid any further prosecution if it can show an "acceptance and acknowledgement of responsibility for its conduct" for three years. Effectively, GM has been put on probation and the company will have to set up an independent monitor to review its safety and recall policies.

The notoriously litigation-heavy US government has previously fined Toyota 1.2 billion dollars (£770 million) over its poor record of dealing with safety recalls. It remains the largest fine ever handed out to a car company.

 

[Frontstep]

MB would be in a pickle with their rust and brakes if we had laws like that.

 

[C350Carl]

MB would be in a pickle with their rust and brakes if we had laws like that.

And their fantasy mpg claims.

 

[Xtractorfan]

The Gm ignition switch problem has been going on for quite a few years now, and GM apparently just ignored it. which in itself is surprising...