In our new Brexit world do we still need a monarchy

[Yugguy]

"I am personally embarrassed to live in a Monarchy"

feck me, get over yourself.

personally embarrassed?

REALLY????? You wake up every morning red with shame about some rich bird who lives in London?

if that's really the case then that's one of the saddest, most pathetic things I've heard in a long time.

Do you sit in a pub, and your mate comes up:
"Hello PR"
"I can't talk to you right now, I'm too embarrassed about the Queen."

DONT MENTION THE QUEEN LADS! I mentioned her once but I managed to get away with it.

The longer I think about this the funnier it is.
"Sorry kids, I can't take you to the park, someone might mention the Queen."

 

[Craiglxviii]

It's ceremonial only Craig. In theory yes, the monarch has those powers, but when have they ever exercised them against the will of parliament, or ever would ? They are monarch in name only, a constitutional monarch if you will.

If ever a monarch tried to dispose of a prime minister, there would be an immediate constitutional crisis and they would lose their powers entirely.

Parliament runs the government, and the people elect Parliament. (in theory) that is how it should be.

The last time a monarch tried to get rid of a government was in 1640, and look what happened then. James II also tried to interfere in 1688, and he was ignominiously forced to flee at night in a rowing boat, as far as I recall.

The powers may be Constitutional but that is entirely the point. They do not reside in Parliament.

The last time the Monarch dissolved a Parliament was 1975 in the Australian Constitutional Crisis...

 

[davemercedes]

It's ceremonial only Craig. In theory yes, the monarch has those powers, but when have they ever exercised them against the will of parliament, or ever would ? They are monarch in name only, a constitutional monarch if you will.

If ever a monarch tried to dispose of a prime minister, there would be an immediate constitutional crisis and they would lose their powers entirely.

Parliament runs the government, and the people elect Parliament. (in theory) that is how it should be.

The last time a monarch tried to get rid of a government was in 1640, and look what happened then. James II also tried to interfere in 1688, and he was ignominiously forced to flee at night in a rowing boat, as far as I recall.

I do groan when the stock reply of the royals providing income through tourism gets bandied about. Gizza job! Puhlease! I'll happily raise my right arm as I'm driven in and out in a royal car; I'll even make the odd speech if I must.

But there's really been a lot of confusion over the "need" for a monarchy and the public respect for the royals.

There is no doubt that the queen has shown an incredible sense of duty and she admirably fits the bill for the cornerstone of our constitution.

But the disgraceful behaviour of the toe-sucking and publicly unfaithful young generation over the years, culminating in the public finally shaming QE2 into lowering the flag over Buckingham Palace when her daughter in law (previously virtually abandoned by her husband and the royal family) died. I still feel the hurt her young sons had to endure over all that. Then of course there was the youngest prince who was caught out with his company making a documentary about... the Royals so they had to get him out of the public eye and gave him a job "helping the Queen" - quick!

Many of these things could and maybe should be regarded as their business, but contrary to the fifty years before that when discretion at least tried to rule, it was all done wide open in the public's eye and until the current youngest generation i.e.: the princes William and Harry demonstrated a level of dedication to duty again it would not have been so difficult to imagine leaning towards a republican movement. Hopefully, in due course they will modernise the monarchy itself and the view we all have of their value.

BUT and it is a BIG but, there are definitely too many taking what they can get while no doubt looking down their respective noses at people living "on benefits" (err I have to ask - what's the difference?) and it's certainly time the Civil List was thinned down a lot.

Then, after the hangers-on, there's the nice little sidelines like grace and favour homes (which also go to government ministers "kerching!") and the total of which is kept very quite - one James McLaughlin 8 February 2011 wrote to the Prime Minister's Office in 2011 and asked:

• Could you tell me the cost of each government Grace and Favour homes to the taxpayer please over the past 5 years?
  
• This should include the cost of the premises, rent and grounds and other maintenance, refurbishments, staff costs, professional fees, catering, security, food and drink, furnishings and decoration.
  
• Could you further tell me the average number of days the homes have been occupied by the office-holder in the past 12 months?

Surprise, surprise, the request was refused.

We pay for all that (well, who else?) - and just to put it into perspective, a Telegraph quote in 2010 said "The Royal household has for years been lobbying the Government for an increase in the £15m-a-year grant for maintenance, arguing that there is now a £32m backlog of repairs to the palaces." And that was just the backlog - of required repair costs for palaces - not the whole lock stock and inventory!

 

[Naraic]

When Diana died the Queen was not in London so no flag (the Royal standard) was flying.

The Mail and the Sun and others became unbearable so they had to raise a Union Flag (not the Royal Standard) to half mast.

These are but facts.

 

[JBell]

I am personally embarrassed to live in a Monarchy

Have you met Jurgen the German, he kept apologising for his countries war crimes

 

[Craiglxviii]

Have you met Jurgen the German, he kept apologising for his countries war crimes

Don't mention the war! I did it once but think I got away with it!

 

[AMGeed]

I am personally embarrassed to live in a Monarchy and b4 the smart ar5es suggest I go live in Russia, I would say that I am of these islands [unlike our Monarchy I am not German]

Why?

You can't leave this with no answer PRW.

Why do you feel embarrassed?

 

[davemercedes]

When Diana died the Queen was not in London so no flag (the Royal standard) was flying.

The Mail and the Sun and others became unbearable so they had to raise a Union Flag (not the Royal Standard) to half mast.

These are but facts.

I spoke about the day of Diana's funeral, not the day of her death.

HM Queen may not have been in residence on that day - and in normal circumstances that is how it would have been normal to have no royal pennant on the palace but that day wasn't a normal circumstance.

Anyway she most certainly was there whether resident or not - unless the TV presentation outside the palace showing her waiting for the cortege and walking outside with with the other royals (including Prince Philip, Charles and the young princes) was all fake and the hundreds of thousands of people outside were just a figment of my imagination! It's correct that the flag they flew at half mast was the Union Jack and this was a compromise suggested by the queen - but that doesn't really matter, the fact to be concerned about is the way it all happened. Without that gesture I sincerely believe the future of the monarchy could have been in severe jeapordy in the weeks that followed.

But the fact is - Sun, Daily Mirror, Telegraph or Sport regardless, the Royal family had treated Diana abominably, and I wasn't terribly proud that our monarch was effectively shamed by the people into flying any national flag at half mast over the palace on that day. I think that was probably the first time people here clapped when the cortege went past and somehow it was just as - if not more, respectful than silence.

 

[Oarsman]

When Diana died the Queen was not in London so no flag (the Royal standard) was flying.

The Mail and the Sun and others became unbearable so they had to raise a Union Flag (not the Royal Standard) to half mast.

These are but facts.

IIRC there is always a flag on Buck House. The Royal Standard, when the Queen is in residence and the Union flag at all other times. As you say, it was pressure from the masses, via the media, that forced them to fly the flag at half mast.

 

[prwales]

You can't leave this with no answer PRW.

Why do you feel embarrassed?

we aren't a grown up democracy with a monarchy

 

[Naraic]

IIRC there is always a flag on Buck House. The Royal Standard, when the Queen is in residence and the Union flag at all other times. As you say, it was pressure from the masses, via the media, that forced them to fly the flag at half mast.

You are correct now...but not in 1997. Before the change (after Diana died) only the Royal Standard flew, and only when the Queen was in residence.

 

[Naraic]

I spoke about the day of Diana's funeral, not the day of her death.

HM Queen may not have been in residence on that day - and in normal circumstances that is how it would have been normal to have no royal pennant on the palace but that day wasn't a normal circumstance.

Anyway she most certainly was there whether resident or not - unless the TV presentation outside the palace showing her waiting for the cortege and walking outside with with the other royals (including Prince Philip, Charles and the young princes) was all fake and the hundreds of thousands of people outside were just a figment of my imagination! It's correct that the flag they flew at half mast was the Union Jack and this was a compromise suggested by the queen - but that doesn't really matter, the fact to be concerned about is the way it all happened. Without that gesture I sincerely believe the future of the monarchy could have been in severe jeapordy in the weeks that followed.

But the fact is - Sun, Daily Mirror, Telegraph or Sport regardless, the Royal family had treated Diana abominably, and I wasn't terribly proud that our monarch was effectively shamed by the people into flying any national flag at half mast over the palace on that day. I think that was probably the first time people here clapped when the cortege went past and somehow it was just as - if not more, respectful than silence.

You said when she died...not on the day of her funeral. Just saying.

 

[AMGeed]

we aren't a grown up democracy with a monarchy

You speak in riddles today PRW.

Tell me how we, as a country, would be "grown up" without a monarchy.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Don't mention the war! I did it once but think I got away with it!

You seem to never shut up about it...

 

[Craiglxviii]

You seem to never shut up about it...

And you just seem to never shut up.

 

[davemercedes]

You said when she died...not on the day of her funeral. Just saying.

Okay - if you want to nit-pick.
But you knew what I meant.

 

[Frontstep]

You speak in riddles today PRW.

Tell me how we, as a country, would be "grown up" without a monarchy.

I take it to mean the logical end game of a Democracy is that we have elected all our leaders.

The Queen has my support but C&C hmm.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I take it to mean the logical end game of a Democracy is that we have elected all our leaders.

The Queen has my support but C&C hmm.

He will abdicate immediately in favour of William.

 

[davemercedes]

He will abdicate immediately in favour of William.

No chance.
Betcha: Pint of "decent" bitter

 

[Craiglxviii]

No chance.
Betcha: Pint of "decent" bitter

Raise you a bottle of proper craft bitter. If he takes the throne it'll be for the minimum period to abdicate in favour of his son. Clarence House has already made noises to this regard.