Manchester attack news

[PovertySpec]

"Since when do they HAVE to follow Islam?"

From birth until they're old enough to decide for themselves?

Until they realise that ostracism (or death - quite literally in many cases) is the penalty for not following?

It is (for now) OK to criticise an idea, especially a terrible one.

 

[Frontstep]

Why do we follow sheep like into so many things is it peer or societal pressure, because we always have ?

How many of us know someone who has changed religion ?
I do know the odd one (no pun intended) who have found Jesus.

I am not attracted to Islamic States but my Muslim friends aren't either.
They enjoy a "softer" society with more freedoms.
"That's the way it is" seems to be the most prevalent answer to some of the more lets say abrasive lines.
Any attack on parts is taught as an attack on the whole.
So its warts and all until the higher echelons of the faith decide otherwise and as I posted above some like it as it is Isis and all.

 

[C350Carl]

Many of our beliefs are learnt through our parents and peer groups. That's everything from religion to favourite sports team etc etc.

The vast majority of people will continue to follow these beliefs even as adults. Are we now saying the whole of humanity is too dumb or too idle to make our own minds up?

Some obviously are, some are Indoctrinated by radicals and some are through fear.

But the vast majority follow the ideals of their forebears and do so out of choice. They also are able to get along with each other.

 

[PovertySpec]

Are we now saying the whole of humanity is too dumb or too idle to make our own minds up?

You forgot frightened.

Look at those who conflate ideology with race and try to shut down any criticism of ideology.

Have they made their own minds up or have they had their minds made up for them?

 

[C350Carl]

You mean like you do by saying/implying 1.8bn Muslims all follow a warped ideology and have been forced to do so?

 

[Craiglxviii]

You mean like you do by saying/implying 1.8bn Muslims all follow a warped ideology and have been forced to do so?

S'funny isn't it? We keep on coming back to the single front that is open to combat and counter insurgency without half the people realising it... those 1.8bn Muslims are that front. If they all followed the warped ideology then that front wouldn't be open. Would it, Carl?

 

[C350Carl]

As I've said before. If nearly a 1/4 of the world population followed the warped and twisted ideology of the extremists.....

We'd be fcuked and I'd already have my orange boiler suit on!

 

[Craiglxviii]

As I've said before. If nearly a 1/4 of the world population followed the warped and twisted ideology of the extremists.....

We'd be fcuked and I'd already have my orange boiler suit on!

Something tells me it'd be pyres not jumpsuits...

 

[PovertySpec]

You mean like you do by saying/implying 1.8bn Muslims all follow a warped ideology and have been forced to do so?

No.

It is an ideology which, in amongst all other belief systems, appears to freethinkers to be absolutely stand out bonkers.

ALL of the (imaginary figure) 1.8bn adherents were initially forced to do so, that is indisputable.

Can't remember who said it first, possibly the late great Christopher Hitchens, but you should be automatically suspicious of any person who forces a child to read a book full on nonsense, backwards, in a language they don't understand, or else. Would you fill your kids heads with such rubbish?

 

[Craiglxviii]

You know that Islam is partly based (very broadly) on the type of Christianity practiced in the area where the Mohammetan horde originated, don't you?

 

[C350Carl]

No.

It is an ideology which, in amongst all other belief systems, appears to freethinkers to be absolutely stand out bonkers.

ALL of the (imaginary figure) 1.8bn adherents were initially forced to do so, that is indisputable.

Can't remember who said it first, possibly the late great Christopher Hitchens, but you should be automatically suspicious of any person who forces a child to read a book full on nonsense, backwards, in a language they don't understand, or else. Would you fill your kids heads with such rubbish?

So, according to you then, the whole population of the world have all be forced to follow any beliefs we have?

Let's pick a few holes in your last paragraph.

The 1.8bn ( not an imaginary figure. Try doing some actual research!) were not 'forced' to read a book backwards in a language they don't understand or else.

Firstly - Arabic is read and written right to left. Always has been. So it's only backwards to us. Just as to anyone who's first language is Arabic will find our language backwards.

Secondly - it's a language they DO understand as it's the first language they learn to speak and read before anything else.

Thirdly - The Quran to the West may be full of nonsense. But so is the bible to those in the Middle East (as it is to many westerners) and beyond. As an example, ever seen anyone crucified, stabbed through the side, die and then come back to life 3 days later (or whatever the timeframe is)?

Lastly - How can you say they have to do it or else? That's like saying any child who goes to school in the West or is taught something by a parent is forced to do so or else?

Yet again you seem unable to grasp the simple fact that there is a version of Islam that is being horribly twisted by extremists to justify their barbaric actions. Then there is also a version that is followed by 99.9% and they don't go around killing innocent men, women and children.

 

[PovertySpec]

You believe that if you like mate, you're free to do so.

They are not and it's still a load of borricks, by any stretch of the imagination.

You know it, I know it and so do many of them.

They just keep their heads down because we all know what happens when they stick their heads above the parapet.

Religion is about control. 99% of the time it's men controlling women, right down to a woman's right to birth control. Still, in Ireland, in 2017, so catholicism isn't getting a free ride from me, either, no bias here before anyone else conflates ideology with race.

"it's the first language they learn to speak and read before anything else."

Not forced in any way? OK.

 

[Craiglxviii]

So by that analogy, 20% of Leicester must be supporting ISIS then?

 

[PovertySpec]

So by that analogy, 20% of Leicester must be supporting ISIS then?

By Carl's own estimate it's 3298. A brigade.

 

[C350Carl]

You believe that if you like mate, you're free to do so.

They are not and it's still a load of borricks, by any stretch of the imagination.

You know it, I know it and so do many of them.

They just keep their heads down because we all know what happens when they stick their heads above the parapet.

Religion is about control. 99% of the time it's men controlling women, right down to a woman's right to birth control. Still, in Ireland, in 2017, so catholicism isn't getting a free ride from me, either, no bias here before anyone else conflates ideology with race.

Correct I am free to think so. I'm free to disagree too. Please don't try to tell me what I do or don't believe.

The difference between us both is that my opinion is formed from fact, research and experience.

Yours appears to be right out of 'how to be prejudiced for beginners'!

 

[C350Carl]

By Carl's own estimate it's 3298. A brigade.

Yeah because all the governments and research centres in the world use my 'estimates'.

 

[Craiglxviii]

By Carl's own estimate it's 3298. A brigade.

And yet we haven't seen that level of threat, have we?

 

[PovertySpec]

Ah, judice.

When one gathers enough experience of something it goes beyond sub and pre is just a short cut to the eventual obvious decision.

Unlike the religious types you are defending I wouldn't begin to think of instructing anyone in how or what to think.

Your opinion is as valid a anyone's but it does come across as being MRE kool-aid, iyswim.

 

[PovertySpec]

And yet we haven't seen that level of threat, have we?

And yet.

 

[C350Carl]

Ah, judice.

When one gathers enough experience of something it goes beyond sub and pre is just a short cut to the eventual obvious decision.

Unlike the religious types you are defending I wouldn't begin to think of instructing anyone in how or what to think.

Your opinion is as valid a anyone's but it does come across as being MRE kool-aid, iyswim.

I'll defend anyone who is innocent.

Try to remember though that you've been forced to think the way you do. It happened from birth don't forget! Just like you were forced to read and write English, believe all Muslims are the devil incarnate etc etc.