Manchester attack news

[PovertySpec]

religion/ideology isn't the problem

You're wrong. It is, otherwise why are we talking about it?

We in the UK, as a people, were doing OK as we moved away from religion towards a more rational approach.

Now?

 

[LostKiwi]

Clicky Linky

I expected more from you.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw...mobile-gws-serp..11.11.1326.3..41.-J7Io3JuNbw

 

[C350Carl]

You're wrong. It is, otherwise why are we talking about it?

We in the UK, as a people, were doing OK as we moved away from religion towards a more rational approach.

Now?

There are approx now 1.6-1.8bn followers of Islam, nearly 24% of the world population as of this years figures. So up from the 1.1bn I was saying earlier. Don't you think we would be completely fcuked if the ideology was the issue?

I don't see how you can't understand that we aren't talking about the Ideology of Islam. We are talking about the twisted ideology of the fanatics. There is a massive difference.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Or, put another way, the argument would be the same if we were Moonbats- the state religion of Outer Loonistan- discussing the Army of God, Eastern Lightning and the Lord's Resistance Army, and how all Christian ideology is the problem.

It isn't.

The big problem that Islam has is that- the people being the battleground, in any insurgency remember- Muslims in general tend towards passive support for those terrorists. That is they choose religion over state. I'd suggest that is where the Main Effort should be focused.

 

[Frontstep]

It is absolutely the ideology, Islam set free manifests itself badly, the overwhelming majority of its followers choose the peaceful ways because they do not want to follow some of its more extreme teachings.

I could fill pages with examples of text that the likes of Isis Boko Haram Al Quaeda rely on to promulgate their cause.

Stepping back from terrorism to examples of countries that exist under Islamic rule where people are disfigured and slain by the state women are treated as second class citizens it is not utopian.
Many religions let loose follow paths where essentially old men play God.

A simple list of atrocities committed recently shows how widespread this problem is;


2017.05.27 (Afghanistan)
A Shahid suicide car bomber slaughters eighteen at a public bus station.



2017.05.26 (Egypt)
Christians on their way to a monastery make easy pickings for Islamic gunmen, who massacre twenty-eight - including ten children.


2017.05.24 (Philippines)
Nine Christians are captured by Islamic militants and shot to death.


2017.05.24 (Iraq)
An ISIS booby-trap takes out a family of twenty-three taking shelter. The victims include pregnant women and children.


2017.05.24 (Indonesia)
Two suicide bombers detonate outside a bus terminal, killing three guards.


2017.05.24 (Somalia)
Five people are exterminated by a Shahid suicide bomber

 

[Craiglxviii]

Hello brick wall, this is head. Permission to bang, over.

 

[PovertySpec]

nearly 24% of the world population

I could wade right into this, balls deep, and happily upset the bien pensant but I'll just say you're wrong.

Nobody is born that way, they are made that way, forced to be that way, so the 24%, given the choice, would actually be about 2%.

Cut it up however you like it's still just an idea and a bizarre one at that and should be given no quarter.

 

[LostKiwi]

You're wrong. It is, otherwise why are we talking about it?

We in the UK, as a people, were doing OK as we moved away from religion towards a more rational approach.

Now?

"Just the opinion of one person"

 

[C350Carl]

I could wade right into this, balls deep, and happily upset the bien pensant but I'll just say you're wrong.

Nobody is born that way, they are made that way, forced to be that way, so the 24%, given the choice, would actually be about 2%.

Cut it up however you like it's still just an idea and a bizarre one at that and should be given no quarter.

At no point have I said I agree with Islamist extremists. Please show me where I have.

There are approx 1.8bn Muslims in the world. 1.8bn of 7.5bn is approx 24%.

As you say they aren't born extremists. They are made that way by the fanatics twisted ideology. Which they use to warp the easily led and impressionable in society.

I fully agree it is a bizarre how they behave and it shouldn't be given any quarter.

My point is that, and I thought this was pretty clear, the 1.8bn aren't all extremists.

So please tell me how I'm wrong. I'm all ears.

 

[PovertySpec]

As you say they aren't born extremists.

I didn't say they were born extremists I do say they are not born muslim.

 

[C350Carl]

I didn't say they were born extremists I do say they are not born muslim.

I didn't say they were born Muslim either????

I said there are approx 1.8bn Muslims in the world.

I don't see the correlation.

 

[Xtractorfan]

When religion is involved then it is easy to justify the killing of women and children. And when that religion tells you that you will be glorified for doing so then its is much easier to carry out such atrocities. Basically it is a mindset, which is very hard to overcome, especially for a Western foreign Government, who themselves are implicit in bombing, albeit legally as they see it. But when these young men see it happening in their own backyard they are very easy to manipulate. There is always the two sides to every story and then the truth.

 

[PovertySpec]

I didn't say they were born Muslim either????

I said there are approx 1.8bn Muslims in the world.

I don't see the correlation.

Herein lies the problem.

 

[C350Carl]

You've lost me Povertyspec.

The 1.8bn I haven't personally counted. It's what pretty much any research centre about population split around the world says.

Are they all bien pensant too?

 

[C350Carl]

When religion is involved then it is easy to justify the killing of women and children. And when that religion tells you that you will be glorified for doing so then its is much easier to carry out such atrocities. Basically it is a mindset, which is very hard to overcome, especially for a Western foreign Government, who themselves are implicit in bombing, albeit legally as they see it. But when these young men see it happening in their own backyard they are very easy to manipulate. There is always the two sides to every story and then the truth.

So how do you explain the UK born who haven't seen bombings happening in there own backyard?

I'd also be interested to know how western governments are implicit in the bombing of innocent women and children. Not saying they haven't made mistakes, they clearly have at times. But they are just that, a mistake. Doesn't mean I'm saying it's right. But the difference is they don't set out to bomb innocent people.

 

[PovertySpec]

You've lost me Povertyspec.

Back to the original question; why defend a ludicrous belief system?

Go on, your floor.

 

[C350Carl]

Back to the original question; why defend a ludicrous belief system?

Go on, your floor.

Show me where I have defended the extremists?

Over to you.

 

[PovertySpec]

Back to the original question; why defend a ludicrous belief system?

In any way, shape or form.

 

[C350Carl]

Back to the original question; why defend a ludicrous belief system?

In any way, shape or form.

Again show me where I have defended the extremists belief system??

If you have to ask a daft question again, rather than just admit you want to tar 1.8bn people on the planet with the same brush. Please don't bother.

I'm all for debate and differing opinions. But blatant ignorance I would rather not get involved in.

I currently live in the Middle East, in a country who's population is predominantly Muslim (92% according to its own Government). It's Ramadan and there are Westerners like myself and Christian's who don't have any issues. I even have some very good friends who are devout Muslims who I work with.

Or maybe they're treating me like a lamb to the slaughter and just waiting to pounce......

 

[PovertySpec]

1.8bn people

Have you asked them all? If, given the choice, would they prefer to live their lives without the encumbrance of a f$ked up ideology? Do this, wear that, don't eat that, think this, or else?

Why are you there? Soft intervention?