Depreciation

[SL63 Mark]

Do they live in Devon?

Ah, should have said they live in Hampshire ! (So four hour drive)

 

[MBDevotee]

You could argue that EVs are being mis-sold IMO they are only good for local journeys ie, 50 mile radius due to lack of a viable quick charging infrastructure. My daughter was considering an EV as a company car when I explained what range anxiety is (she’d never heard of it) she quickly shelved the idea thank goodness, although the alternative plug-in hybrid she’s considering isn’t ideal at least she won’t be stuck at some dud charging point panicking about getting home or worse. As is the case with most political decisions the government are way ahead of the reality curve by introducing tax incentives for company vehicles that don’t currently make sense.

So you talked your daughter out of a super tax efficient vehicle into one spectacularly less tax efficient to prevent something called "Range anxiety" which doesn't exist.

For some "Charger anxiety" exists - but that isn't really much of a thing - but there is no such thing as range anxiety. My car tells me exactly how many miles I have left in range at all times - literally I can look down and see how many miles of range I have at any time at all - so why would I be anxious. Now if it had no range meter THEN you would have anxiety "ooh will it make it to where I need to go?" but it doesn't...... So if I have 150 miles to do and 280 miles of range what anxiety do I have?? None.

If it says I have 280 miles to do and I have 150, then I know sometime in the next hours driving I need a quick break to charge for 10 min. If I only have 150 miles left it's a safe bet I've already been driving for 2 hours so I'm pretty much ready for a break anyhow - still no anxiety, just a simple matter of fact choice of where shall I stop - I mean look - there are practically no chargers between here and Scotland are there.....

The North



The South


So no real anxiety.

Lets look at the other side too.

I have NO idea what car she COULD have had as a company car - but lets pick a couple of cars people know.......

Option 1) EV

I chose a decent EV if she does a lot of miles - so an EV6 GT Line S



Has a range of 323 miles so assuming she drives from Bristol to Scotland every day she would have to make 1 18 minute stop during a 7 hour drive - I think that's ok


Option 2 - a PHEV.

Picked a comparable car so went with Kia Sportage just to keep it similar




So add the Tax and the Fuel scale charge together and the Sportage would cost £2368 a year for a 40% tax payer - and £427 as a 40% tax payer for the EV.

It would be cheaper for the employer too.

That's before you factor in just how much nicer to drive an EV like that is.

Assuming she's like most people doing around 50-100m per day most of the time and 3 or 4 trips a year over 300 miles you have cost her a load of money to stop her having to charge 3 or 4 times a year for 18 min......

And in fact given 95% of the time she'd probably charge at home then she will spend a lot more time at fuel stations than she would rapid charging.


In the 2 years I've owned an EV I've needed to Rapid charge about 4 or 5 times - it's really no issue.


I know I am sounding like an evangelist - but I note that all the people who say how "terrible" the infrastructure is probably have never even used it! Take it from someone who actually DOES use it - it really is fine!

 

[MBDevotee]

All very good I’m sure - I still wouldn’t put my daughter in an EV at the current state of the national charging infrastructure to do long distance

What does this even mean???

Given there are only about a 810,000 EV's in the UK and 44,000 chargers, thats one charger for every 20 cars.......

95-99% of the time people will charge at home - so assuming someone does 10 drives a day and less than 1% (I checked my app - of the 1594 times I've driven my car - 5 trips needed a rapid charger) - so we can say a tiny percentage of those journeys will be over the range of their car....

If we assume that the average owner will rapid charge 3 or 4 times a year - and it takes 40 min - that's 810,000 owners x 4 x 40 min of charging per minutes - or 129,600,000 minutes of charging per year.

There are 44,000 chargers in the UK, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year - so 385,440,000 of available hours of charger availability as of June 2023 - up 36% on June 2022.

So basically there are way more chargers than we need - whenever I pass them I glance at them - usually at least 3 or 4 are free (rapids not necessarily ordinary destination chargers).

Again - a statement based on completely the wrong information - I say again, where on earth do you get this rubbish from ??

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

What does this even mean???

Given there are only about a 810,000 EV's in the UK and 44,000 chargers, thats one charger for every 20 cars.......

95-99% of the time people will charge at home - so assuming someone does 10 drives a day and less than 1% (I checked my app - of the 1594 times I've driven my car - 5 trips needed a rapid charger) - so we can say a tiny percentage of those journeys will be over the range of their car....

If we assume that the average owner will rapid charge 3 or 4 times a year - and it takes 40 min - that's 810,000 owners x 4 x 40 min of charging per minutes - or 129,600,000 minutes of charging per year.

There are 44,000 chargers in the UK, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year - so 385,440,000 of available hours of charger availability as of June 2023 - up 36% on June 2022.

So basically there are way more chargers than we need - whenever I pass them I glance at them - usually at least 3 or 4 are free (rapids not necessarily ordinary destination chargers).

Again - a statement based on completely the wrong information - I say again, where on earth do you get this rubbish from ??

Major flaws in charging infrastructure causing headaches for electric car owners - Which? News

Which? survey reveals significant shortfalls in charging infrastructure for electric vehicles

www.which.co.uk

 

[DSK]

Even the makers said they are just experimenting with electric and the infrastructure will take years and it’s not viable yet. It will be about 10yrs before it’s worth even considering an electric car. That’s from the horses mouths as our company owns a stake in the biggest name and we get all the usual company news, roadmaps, forecasts etc. Now we are about 8yrs away.

In 10yrs I’ll be glad to see boy racers in electric cars compared to the dreadful farts and poops we have to listen to today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

What does this even mean???

Given there are only about a 810,000 EV's in the UK and 44,000 chargers, thats one charger for every 20 cars.......

95-99% of the time people will charge at home - so assuming someone does 10 drives a day and less than 1% (I checked my app - of the 1594 times I've driven my car - 5 trips needed a rapid charger) - so we can say a tiny percentage of those journeys will be over the range of their car....

If we assume that the average owner will rapid charge 3 or 4 times a year - and it takes 40 min - that's 810,000 owners x 4 x 40 min of charging per minutes - or 129,600,000 minutes of charging per year.

There are 44,000 chargers in the UK, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year - so 385,440,000 of available hours of charger availability as of June 2023 - up 36% on June 2022.

So basically there are way more chargers than we need - whenever I pass them I glance at them - usually at least 3 or 4 are free (rapids not necessarily ordinary destination chargers).

Again - a statement based on completely the wrong information - I say again, where on earth do you get this rubbish from ??

All you are providing are statistics where’s the human element in this?

 

[eman]

This guy gives an insight on the tax benefits. But only if you have a company car that they are willing to pay for

 

[rorywquin]

This guy gives an insight on the tax benefits. But only if you have a company car that they are willing to pay for

I don’t know the details but my son pays a similar amount for his Taycan (EV) compared to what he paid for his ICE AMG E53 (company car scheme).

 

[Srdl]

I’m not sure whether this is the right thread,but it seems to fit well with the general theme of stopping oil/gas
The truth about heat pumps and the power needed to run them https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66359093

 

[rorywquin]

So you talked your daughter out of a super tax efficient vehicle into one spectacularly less tax efficient to prevent something called "Range anxiety" which doesn't exist.

For some "Charger anxiety" exists - but that isn't really much of a thing - but there is no such thing as range anxiety. My car tells me exactly how many miles I have left in range at all times - literally I can look down and see how many miles of range I have at any time at all - so why would I be anxious. Now if it had no range meter THEN you would have anxiety "ooh will it make it to where I need to go?" but it doesn't...... So if I have 150 miles to do and 280 miles of range what anxiety do I have?? None.

If it says I have 280 miles to do and I have 150, then I know sometime in the next hours driving I need a quick break to charge for 10 min. If I only have 150 miles left it's a safe bet I've already been driving for 2 hours so I'm pretty much ready for a break anyhow - still no anxiety, just a simple matter of fact choice of where shall I stop - I mean look - there are practically no chargers between here and Scotland are there.....

The North

View attachment 85325

The South
View attachment 85324

So no real anxiety.

Those maps are not really telling the truth. They show every household and other private charge points (offices, factories etc). Perhaps if you filtered them down to only publically accessible points it will be more truthful.

“Do all charge points work on all EVs?"

 

[rorywquin]

I’m not sure whether this is the right thread,but it seems to fit well with the general theme of stopping oil/gas
The truth about heat pumps and the power needed to run them https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66359093

Heat pumps are only suitable for modern recently very well insulated homes with underfloor heating and radiators designed for heat pump systems.

It costs a fortune to convert existing systems.

 

[eman]

BBC @ 20.00 tonight about heat pumps and all you need to know. There bound to say you need one

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

BBC @ 20.00 tonight about heat pumps and all you need to know. There bound to say you need one

I’ll tune in should be interesting everything I’ve heard so far has been negative on cost and so so on performance

 

[bladecrazy]

funny reading about peoples views on evs without owning one, because thats what you have to do!, we did a 180mile round trip with 100 miles to spare with no anxiety, just forward planning , i had an a2014 e35o bluetec before hand and the 500 mile countdown gave me more anxiety , so just to recap if your doing more than 300 mile in one go then plan a supercharge on the way its that easy! they are cheap to run and thats why i bought it.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

funny reading about peoples views on evs without owning one, because thats what you have to do!, we did a 180mile round trip with 100 miles to spare with no anxiety, just forward planning , i had an a2014 e35o bluetec before hand and the 500 mile countdown gave me more anxiety , so just to recap if your doing more than 300 mile in one go then plan a supercharge on the way its that easy! they are cheap to run and thats why i bought it.

I wouldn’t say I’m anti EV it’s always good to debate there are a lot of variables to consider cost of purchase, usage, convenience of charging, range anxiety in winter conditions and environmental concerns regarding manufacture of battery packs, added weight to the vehicle and rate of tyre wear. So all in all I’m not convinced on more counts than just range and whether there is a charger available when I needed one. I do see a future for EV as city transport and anyone who commutes into urban areas should seriously consider one or a plug-in hybrid.
If it works for you that’s great!

 

[rorywquin]

funny reading about peoples views on evs without owning one, because thats what you have to do!, we did a 180mile round trip with 100 miles to spare with no anxiety, just forward planning , i had an a2014 e35o bluetec before hand and the 500 mile countdown gave me more anxiety , so just to recap if your doing more than 300 mile in one go then plan a supercharge on the way its that easy! they are cheap to run and thats why i bought it.

Never have to “forward plan” in an ICE - get in the car and go. If I need petrol, just stop and buy some. 5 minute process.

“Supercharge” - If a point is available, pay extortionate prices & hang around waiting.

I’m actually in favour of EV’s they certainly have their place but are not the be all and end all.

Now talk of of possible extension to the sales of new ICE, so EV buyers may live to regret buying their overpriced cars.

 

[lewyboy]

Never have to “forward plan” in an ICE - get in the car and go. If I need petrol, just stop and buy some. 5 minute process.

And now look at you, lucky enough to be alive at a time of significant change.

 

[rorywquin]

I wouldn’t say I’m anti EV it’s always good to debate there are a lot of variables to consider cost of purchase, usage, convenience of charging, range anxiety in winter conditions and environmental concerns regarding manufacture of battery packs, added weight to the vehicle and rate of tyre wear. So all in all I’m not convinced on more counts than just range and whether there is a charger available when I needed one. I do see a future for EV as city transport and anyone who commutes into urban areas should seriously consider one or a plug-in hybrid.
If it works for you that’s great!

WInter, stuck in traffic because of an accident and the batteries (my planned charge stop is 20 miles away) are discharging rapidly because of the electric heaters in the car....... Cannot make it to the charge point.

As previously stated, I’m not anti EV but they are not the perfect solution (yet).

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

WInter, stuck in traffic because of an accident and the batteries (my planned charge stop is 20 miles away) are discharging rapidly because of the electric heaters in the car....... Cannot make it to the charge point.

As previously stated, I’m not anti EV but they are not the perfect solution (yet).

The dash/haste for EVs has overruled the human element which is just starting to come into play, hence secondhand sales dropping, a full tank of diesel in my car gives me a potential of covering 800 miles

 

[SL63 Mark]

, a full tank of diesel in my car gives me a potential of covering 800 miles

Yes but diesels are noisy, slow, smell horrible, emit carcinogens, and kill the planet. Modern diesels have (allegedly) cleaner emissions devices that cause endless cost and problems.

I speak as the owner of two diesel cars, and I will never sell my 2012 diesel Defender, but there is more to it than the convenience argument.