Help, low powered sprinter (ive read nearly everything with no result)

[Sheepster]

Is there a way I can pick up a bit more power/acceleration on my 311 cdi? its a 2001 and I have owned it for 4 weeks. In that time I have fully serviced it, replaced the front spring/ bottom ball joints/ front discs and pads. it had 2 blowing injectors so I removed them, cut the seats and fitted a full set of recon injectors, its fine in the 1st 3 gears revving up to 3750rpm, then once 4th is selected, its struggles a bit. It will pull 76mph but 5th really dont do much as it will eventually wind 71mph in 4th if I floor it.
Once I replaced the injectors it felt a bit flat and before I had done the work it would pull 80mph just now 76mph..I know things have to bed in but I was loosing a lot of compression on No 3 so expected a bit more grunt once done, any suggestions or can I do something with remapping or replacing the high pressure fuel pump. The van has done 199'000miles. I am not after top speed only over taking and pulling power. By the way, the glow plug light does not work at all, even on start up, I replaced the plugs at the same time as the injectors as a matter of good practice but the onces I took out was fine and it starts no problems even in cold mornings.

Im new to CDIs and Mercs so my knowlege its sketchy at best but been on the spanners fixing diesels for years but looking for advice from lads who have been working on common rails.

All replies kindly excepted as Im going mental!!

 

[dieselman]

This sounds like you have a fuelling problem. It's likely the ECU is in limp home mode due to a fault or the MAF is about dead.
Meter pin5 on the MAF WRT Gnd and rev the engine to the max, preferably when driving. If the max voltage isn't ~4.5-4.8v DC the MAF is in trouble so the engine won't fuel up.

If the MAF is good look for disconnected vacuum pipes or stuck EGR valve.

 

[MB Service Centre]

could this be a bit of a boost prob? get it oto a star and get the live data checked

 

[Sheepster]

Thanks guys for the info..

here is the score,

the van is a 2001 311cdi sprinter.

I have been a mechanic for years and work for a big bus company but this is the 1st time I have owned a mercedes or a common rail diesel so its a learning curve for me. anyway I too went for the Maf sensor thinking that was going to be the fault then on inspection realised it did not have a Maf sensor on it (after buying a new one!) its direct air box- turbo- intercooler- 2 sensors (pressure and inlet temp) then to the manifold.
It also does NOT have a EGR valve.

I decided to sort the blowing injectors 1st.. after a nightmare digging out 2 inch deep of black tar, 2 hours with a puller getting the ****** injectors out, breaking a washer inside the injector on rebuild so had to fit a set of recon injectors, I also recut the seats as the mess was dire at the bottom. Anyway I assumed the loss of compression was going to be the route cause of the lower power than expected which after completing the job it had absolutly no possitive effect.

I noticed the engine ran cold so fitted a new thermostat and the fan ran at full power so fitted a new viscous fan hub.. No effect still.:cry:

THE EDC LIGHT COMES ON WHEN IGN IS TURNED ON BUT GOES OUT AFTER 3 SECONDS. The glow plug light does NOT come on at all but fires up straight away even when freezing outside.

I started fault finding, the intercooler pipe has 2 sensors (air intake sensor and turbo pressure sensor. Diconnected the pressure sensor it wont rev over 3000rpm- replug it in and its back to 3750rpm so that works, temp sensor washed and refitted (if either are unplugged it does NOT put the EDC on)

The service light was on so reset that incase it runs it at lower power

checked the brake light switch (tested that while driving and it cuts the turbo)

Ive checked the output on the turbo at the manifold and direct at the turbo all seems ok. Ive checked the boost valve and pipes even over the top of the engine to the heater vac valve and that seems ok. Turbo gate works fine.

All filters are new, brakes not binding.

the van really starts to lack in 4th and 5th and even when Ive had it flat out at 76mph there is still 1 inch of throttle travel left, that does nothing when pressed futher..

now its getting to me as I can normally sort any problem with a diesel.. does these vans have a speed limiter? but that would surely not be that or the slight loss in power since changing the injectors should not have happened as it should be doing exactly the same speed as before...

I went to another bus company today and had a chat to one of there mechanics as they have a fleet of 310 313 mercs, according to them my van should be capable of nearly 100mph and obviously I have a fault

Any info that may shed light on it would be great.

 

[sr-performancelive..]

Hi mate,
I would have it on diagnostic's, i'm sure they will find a fault, it does sound like it's either not getting fuel or boost, but if it isn't getting enough fuel then obviously the boost will not be there..
Good luck mate, these things are sent to test you..
Did you buy it like this??

 

[Sheepster]

Yep, It was like this when I got it. :cry:

after coming from a 250'00mile P reg transit 190 lwb it felt awesome but after trying a mates Merc out I realised mine was lacking.

I have done some more investigating today, and I have a few more leads on faults inc the poss fault on the double pole brake light switch and the loom running under the radiator has been taped up. I have spoken to Enza motors to double check to see if it has been fitted with a speed limiter but they could not confirm and dont give info out on the phone. They did how ever give me the tech number which is a answer machine touting the sale of there diagnostic equipment

I have now got from another mechanic a number of a independant mechanic who has the diagnostic equipment and is a ex Merc mechanic so will see where that takes me.

Ones things for sure, I am determined to get to the bottom of this as issues like this is all over the web with very little conclusion

 

[sr-performancelive..]

Well at least it will give you something to do on these cold days...
If you post your location someone may be able to help with diagnostic's ther's some helpfull peep's on here...

 

[Cnics]

Loom under the rad would be a good starting point. These are common points of failure and put the vehicle into limp home mode without showing the EDC light.

The vehicle should rev whilst driving to about 4100rpm in each of the 5 gears. It's more than possible on a straight run (flat or downhill) to let the 311's sit on the rev limiter in 5th at about 104mph. They don't take much effort to get there either.
This can't be a speed limiter or you'd accelerate fast to 76mph and then it'd really feel like it was holding back.

So, waste gate sensor, wiring loom, boost pressure sensor, certainly have any codes read.

Pain in the ****** arse they are, go buy a 312d Faster and less hassle with a REAL diesel engine.

 

[MB Service Centre]

Loom under the rad would be a good starting point. These are common points of failure and put the vehicle into limp home mode without showing the EDC light.

The vehicle should rev whilst driving to about 4100rpm in each of the 5 gears. It's more than possible on a straight run (flat or downhill) to let the 311's sit on the rev limiter in 5th at about 104mph. They don't take much effort to get there either.
This can't be a speed limiter or you'd accelerate fast to 76mph and then it'd really feel like it was holding back.

So, waste gate sensor, wiring loom, boost pressure sensor, certainly have any codes read.

Pain in the ****** arse they are, go buy a 312d Faster and less hassle with a REAL diesel engine.

Will second that, had all these problems all the time when i was on the truck side and 24hr breakdown, loom very good place to start!!

 

[Sheepster]

Getting through some faults,

tonight I took the battery tray off and found why the glow plugs dont work.

Low and behold some muppet has had the unit off and some how managed to replug the little plug in the wrong way around!!

yes, I know its not suppost to be able to do it but somebody managed it

glow plugs now working but light on the dash still inop but I can live with that for now..

as for the performance problem, Ive got a guy coming tomorrow with a diagnostics lap top to upload the memory dump so hopefully know more tomorrow, I will keep the thread updated and thanks for the feedback

 

[Sheepster]

getting somewhere now... :-D


loads of faults stored in the memory, they was cleared and onto a road test.

fault still there so a fair bit of refering to the lap top, double pole brake light switch changed and the new Fram fuel filter removed and replaced with a marle one (as fram are known to block up) and hopefully we have a conclusion after another road test...

Its the turbo..

the primery fixed turbo is working but the varible vain fins are not spinning out and catching the higher boost pressure so today I have just ordered a £360 inc VAT Recon turbo from Dronsfield mercedes as they was £750 from Road Range Liverpool... I will hopefully fit it tomorrow and come back with a conclusion to the fault... here is hoping

 

[clarkmichigan55b]

Hello sheepster,
Might have been worth taking it apart and cleaning up the vanes.Here is a link that might be of help to you,or others on the forum.

Adrian.

http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/VNT15-Turbo/vnt15-turbo.html

 

[Sheepster]

I did think about stripping turbo but there is a little play in the impeller spindle and the van has covered 200'000miles so decided to replace turbo as a matter of good maintenence.. Very interesting info non the less

Turbo has not turned up as promised

anyway Ive been told it will turn up tomorrow so here is hoping.

anyway while Ive been waiting I have noticed there is a rumble from the front of the engine so on futher investigation I have found the pully that is in place instead of the air con pump is nearly seized, Ive took the pully off, removed the seal from the bearing race, washed it out in the parts cleaner bath, blew it out with compressed air then repacked it with grease and its now it runs as smooth as a babies bum.. so least that 1 job sorted :lol:

 

[Sheepster]

PLEASE HELP ME AS IM GOING MENTAL!!!!!!

Turbo fitted, NO ****** DIFFERENCE!!

you can hear the turbo wiz up and it boosts as it should do but it is suffering low torque and sometimes it will wind up to 80mph odd then sometimes stops at 76mph plus on hills on the motorway you have to drop to 4th when loaded.

there is also a pinking noise sometimes when throttling up, normally going up the gears and when loaded when its going up hill on the motorway.

another 3 hours with the lad with the lap top and we went thro what was causing the low power..

1 thing we found was the rev counter was inaccurate, so I replaced that and low and behold it actually revs to 4200RPM... so its NOT low revs. I also noticed now the dash has been changed the glow plug light is now working but comes back on after start up and stays on (the light did not work at all on the other dash) Dont know if that means anything?

I have also changed the air temp sensor in the intake pipe and break light switch, Ive checked all the vac pipes and changed the boost valve. Ive checked the intercooler for leaks and blown the fuel lines out, as I have said, I am a diesel mechanic but this is doing my head in now. The lap top shows no fault, the speed limiter has been checked and its set to 160kph. Now its just hit and miss diagnosis

Im now thinking hi pressure fuel switch or pump?

come on guys, help me before my head pops

 

[clarkmichigan55b]

Hello Sheepster,

I was wondering what happend to you with this problem. As to the glow plug light problem,have you checked with a meter to see if any of them are faulty?.

The more i look at these electrical problems with the sprinters and vitos, i,am more convinced that it is to with the wiring(dirty connections,poor earths,poor quality)than the component itself.

For example how many times has a brake light switch been replaced,and it has not cured the fault.

I do not know of any other make of van that has so many electrical problems,unless anybody knows different. It appears that the stored fault codes are cleared,and the so called faulty parts are changed,with no improvement in the running of the vehicle.


Adrian

 

[Sheepster]

Sorry it took so long to get back with feeback..

long story but Dronesfield who was supplying the recon turbo eventually admitted after 2 weeks of promises of next day delivery that they did not have a turbo in stock

I got £400 refunded and got 1 from a breaker off a 04 Sainsburys van that was a write off, before I fitted it, I stripped and checked it over so know its fine. Then I went to Portugal for a week

Anyway, I changed the glow plugs when I replaced the injectors 2 months ago as a matter of good practice but I did find some muppet had managed to plug the relay in the wrong way around so sorted that, I have tested the feed to the glow plugs and know there working fine and switch off once the time has elapsed.
I replaced the brake switch with a 2nd hand one as the original one would put the brake lights on just touching the pedal, since then I have fitted a brand new one just in case, I have also removed the exhaust system and ran it for a day just in case the nearly new Dinex had a blockage in it, didnt make any difference, I did how ever remove the air temp sensor and it did seem a tad better but repaced the sensor and its exactly the same. Ive checked the brakes to make sure there all free, thats ok. I have even run the van with the air intake off for a day so the turbo was dragging in air direct to make sure the intakes was not obstructed, only thing that did was to let me hear the vains on the turbo opening but made no difference.
The guy with the lap top has all but give up as he said without the fault registering, he is blind, so now its down to me to get to the bottom of this or give up and sell the van and buy another as its doing my head in.. Sad thing is, its useable and goes fine enough even loaded but its not doing what it should do and need to get a resolve on it.


Ive gone thro the wiring including the one on the front slam panel with no joy.
Im now considering buying one of these fuel chip boxes to see if that makes any difference as Im convinced its a software problem. I am how ever going to hopefully replace the fuel rail pressure sensor this week as well, then the only things left are the low and high pressure fuel pumps, then even taking the rocker cover off to check the valve timing ..

 

[Sheepster]

Found another fault today after removing the grille.

the brown wire that goes to the turbo boost under the radiator has chaffed on 1 of the cleats and is all green furry, I touched the wire and it fell in half.

Im on to the fault now, stripped the wire back, soldered the joints together with a big huge smile on my face...

road tested it and still ****** exactly the same

 

[geezer255]

Can you just describe exactly whats happening when your driving along, is it always the same point in the rev range where it loses power?

 

[clarkmichigan55b]

Hello Sheepster,

Have you a wiring diagram?,if so check for any remote earthing points such as under the dash board. I refer to my last post #15,still think this is a wiring issue.

Have you tried another 311 to see what its performance is like.

Adrian

 

[Sheepster]

Hi mate,

Yes, I think now it has to be a dodgy wiring fault, specially now I found the wire to the turbo boost valve corroded through and the lap top didnt pick it up. I have looked at some of the earth bonds... Oh my god, there is loads of the buggers, specially on the N/S wing and under the N/S scuttle. Hopefully a mate of the lad is coming down today who is a merc technician so with a fresh set of eyes and now 3 of us on it, we will get to the bottom of the situation.. I see this problem keeps popping up on internet sites and non ever seem to make a successful conclusion, hence why I want it sorted.

Ive drove 2 other sprinters and that just results in making me mad that even with 26yrs on the spanners, I still can not get my van to do what it should be able to do!!!

I will check out the earth behind the dash now as you suggested and let you know..

cheers mate,