Birdman
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2004
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- Location
- Suffolk & Oxford
- Your Mercedes
- E55, Phaeton, Fireblade CBR1000RR
Television: I think he is an economist!
television said:I have been involved in manufacturing, the promotion side of things absorbs a massive 30% of profits without the R&D
Malcolm
Absolutely right. And because customers will pay more for 'sport' versions and racing images help sell cars, it is not just Jaguar, of course, but Mercedes too and BMW and Audi and Renault and Honda and Toyota and uncle Tom Cobley and all. Millions. Because we are all daft. We buy faster and faster cars to sit in bigger and bigger traffic jams. As Clarkson has said, 'Motoring as we have known it is coming to an end'. Speed cameras round every corner, new ones to take our average speed from A to B and so on. Congestion charges and more and more penalties on large engines. The future does not look rosy for the motorist.stumpy said:Lets not forget pumping millions and millions into motorsport. Jaguar anyone?
hawk20 said:As Clarkson has said, 'Motoring as we have known it is coming to an end'. Speed cameras round every corner, new ones to take our average speed from A to B and so on. Congestion charges and more and more penalties on large engines. The future does not look rosy for the motorist.
turnipsock said:In days gone by, you would buy a sports car to have some fun and fly past other cars. Now the trend is to get a motor bike to do the same thing. Low sports cars are useless at seeing past 4x4s so you are no better of than a normal car. There are to many cars on the road to get anywhere faster by having a better car.
Clarkson is correct and we spend all our time worring about getting caught to enjoy driving anymore.
stumpy said:Lets be honest - F1 is just a way of making rich men even richer. I can't believe any of the manufacturers or sponsors get value for money. Do Renault sell more cars because they are World Champions? No. They sell more cars because they are cheap and do 0% finance.
stumpy said:As for F1 dying a long time ago. For me it did.
Rory said:I have worked in the auto industry and the *build* cost of a car is typically just under 50% of its pre-tax list price. The price pressure on suppliers is immense - the car manufacturers tell their suppliers how much to charge for the components they supply!
hawk20 said:That really is absolute nonsense. Most car makers LOSE money. You have to look at all the costs including R&D, design, tooling, testing for government safety and environmental and economy tests; as well as advertising and marketing, dealer discounts, salaries and wages and on and on and on.
This goes back to my comment about build cost - the transfer price to the finance company is way lower than any price you'll ever see on the street. That way the finance arms can offer these deals but still be very profitable themselves. You'll be well aware that Ford has made more money on finance for many years than it does on making cars.hawk20 said:Yes and the other thing that is sadly happening on a grand scale is that list prices are becoming meaningless. On another thread on another forum I have shown some dealers selling CL's before the new models arrive at up to 27k off list. Disastrous for residuals. Most cars from most makers now are going out of showrooms with discounts and often with subsidised finance packages. No car firm can borrow money at less than 5% but many of them are offering finance to customers at way below that. Is it Vauxhall who offer 4 years finance at 0%? Add up what the interest should have been and that is a big discount.
If we're not carefull we wil be talking EBITDA next :???: :? :|Rory said:It links in to all the other costs that you mentioned simply by of it being better to keep volumes up in order to amortise those costs over as great a volume as possible.
Blobcat said:If we're not carefull we wil be talking EBITDA next :???: :? :|
Rory said:It links in to all the other costs that you mentioned simply by of it being better to keep volumes up in order to amortise those costs over as great a volume as possible.
No - but buy the £48K car, not the £75K one.hawk20 said:.A £75,000 CL500 is for sale in a Merc dealer with under 1000 miles for £48,000. It should be illegal.
Me too! I paid £23K for a car that would have listed at £33K 5 mths earlier - to all intents and purposes it was brand new.hawk20 said:I got 30% off my present motor when it was four months old. A babe in arms. Madness.
MB are striving for volume. The oft quoted statistic is that BMW 3 Series now outsells Mondeo across Europe. MB would like the C Class to sell just as well and they keep introducing cars to fill other segments (sometimes even creating segments of their own!).hawk20 said:Mercedes are getting in the habit of making a few too many (a few????) and having to discount big time.
Rory said:No - but buy the £48K car, not the £75K one.
Me too! I paid £23K for a car that would have listed at £33K 5 mths earlier - to all intents and purposes it was brand new.
MB are striving for volume. The oft quoted statistic is that BMW 3 Series now outsells Mondeo across Europe. MB would like the C Class to sell just as well and they keep introducing cars to fill other segments (sometimes even creating segments of their own!).
Yes, long term, if the fools start being more careful with their money there may be less newsed motors for us to choose from, but then prices will simply creep up.hawk20 said:Now follow it through. They've lost you and me as new car customers, and lots of others too. How silly. And next they will need even more discounts to sell the new ones. Because more and more people will see the lousy residuals. The fleet buyers will do their sums. What Car will change the predicted residuals. The lousy residuals will stop sensible people buying new unless you offer an arm and a leg off. Just the same disasterous route that Ford followed.