Mercedes is no longer a proper premium brand

[SAABfan]

Apologies for my useless typing skills.

The third line above should read "What else would I have got that is as good for 4k?"


(can't seem to edit it)

 

[jberks]

Haven't read all 15 pages but my two penneth.
We got our W123 250 5 years earlier in 1980 and it cost £12,000 and was pretty basic with manual windows, no wood but did have an electric sunroof. It was the only 'new' merc in the country (my dad spent a day ringing every dealer in the country) and we had to book it to our office in Sheffield or we'd be too far away from Doncaster (where it was) to buy it. Dealers has patches and couldn't sell to anyone outside that catchment. A new one had an 18 month waiting list so to find a cancellation was a real find.
It was a fine car, but did rust and by 130k, the axle was wining and engine clattery and buring oil by the look of the black smoke when you booted it. We later had a used 123 280E. By 100k, usual black clagg and the gearbox had been rebuilt. However, for the era it probably wasn't that unusual and I'll be the first to admit, they had some serious exclusivity.
Truth is though, at the time, R&D involved sending few guys to the desert and arctic for a few months. Today, you need serious cash for the electronics and high precision technology needed in a modern car. The only way to fund that is to spread it across a larger volume of cars. So, with a range of E, Sl and S, selling only to the well healed, you're in trouble. Especially when the new cars from other manufacturers now start every morning too and are also quiet and comfortable. It's not so much that Merc have got worse, but rather that everyone else has caught up.
Point is, that mercs are still more expensive than the competition and on a new car its harder to justify as all are excellent. I recently drove a new volvo. Lovely.
However, get any with a few years and a lot of miles on them and then compare.
I've had mine since it was a demonstrator 8 years ago. So, 9 years old, 154,000 miles and I still thoroughly enjoy driving it. Still hasn't missed a beat, developed any annoying squeaks and rattles, has never broken down and when I feel the hooligan in me come to the fore, can still easily harrass anything in the outside lane or barrel up lanes at an alarming rate.
It really is the best car I've ever owned.
Sure a 5 series is fine but I remember getting a 3 in 1986. It was an expensive, rare, flash motor.Today, on the company car list, they're ten a penny.
The world has changed. Simple as that.
My next car, if and when I do? Another E.

 

[EmilysDad]

.....
I've had mine since it was a demonstrator 8 years ago. So, 9 years old, 154,000 miles and I still thoroughly enjoy driving it. Still hasn't missed a beat, developed any annoying squeaks and rattles, has never broken down and when I feel the hooligan in me come to the fore, can still easily harass anything in the outside lane or barrel up lanes at an alarming rate. .....

But others can do the same. My 178000 miles 1999 3.0 Omega would give you a run for its money too. As I did with a 'go-faster' Ford ST something or other a year or so ago. (I can't say it's never broken down though ..... it's had 2 crank shaft sensors in the last 10 years while I've had it)

 

[prwales]

More than any single issue its the rust thats has let down the modern mercedes cars, I scrapped a 1984 mk2 Golf a couple of years back, 200k miles, 2nd engine 3 sets of suspension, 4 sets of rear calipers a tired interior but no rust when it went to the crusher. Almost every other manufacturer addressed the rust issues of the past.... but not DB

 

[SAABfan]

Maybe the rusting issue is Mercs way of selling us the same thing again and again.

The mechanicals go on for decades (or use to in the 80's & 90's), so by making them rust, it might encourage owners to buy a new one every five years.

I'd rather just buy a Merc and run it for 30 years. I hate having to keep on buying the same thing again and again.

Merc needs new car sales, not people like me buying ten year old models and running them for another ten years+.

IMO, the W202 was the last over engineered Merc, but Merc knew that they had to sell more cars, so skimped on the rustproofing.

If a W202 didn't rust, what reason would anyone have to sell it, as they go on for decades. Bomb proof engines, gearboxes and very robust build quality is what buyers want. Merc wants to sell us the same thing again and again.

Unfortunately the W203 wasn't as good so why bother buying it??

 

[d215yq]

Bomb proof engines, gearboxes and very robust build quality is what buyers want. Merc wants to sell us the same thing again and again.

It might be what you and i want but let me assure you 95% of people couldn't care less about the durability of anything. They just want a premium badge, new registration plate, and a host of gadgets and other stuff that isn't needed, and they want it now and they want it to be an unreliable heap of junk in 5 years to justify taking out another loan and buying the "new model" when the warranty runs out.

It's the short termist consumerism that is so rife today that means nothing is built properly any more. If anything its the cheapest unglamorous models that last due to them having to try harder to convince the badge snobs and also having simpler designs. If you want trouble free motoring for a long time and need a new car my bet would be a base model petrol kia, hyundai or dacia.

Even toyota and nissan's reliability has taken a big hit recently, surprise surprise at the same time they started to try and produce stuff that's a bit more upmarket and more gadget laden, and more expensive.

 

[st4]

Is rust really excusable when so many other cars now resist it so well. Its a damned shame that an expensive car like a Merc rusts badly and a cheap car like a Citreon resists it so well.

Hopefully this new Renault Nissan Alliance will sort out the body work issues

 

[SAABfan]

IMO, the rust issue must have been built into the cars st4.

Mercs are designed very well, so they look still good even after a decade or two. They were/are well built and reliable and run for decades too.

What other way could Merc get people to trade in the old models for new models?

I know some people want the latest thing, but I think most Merc buyers value engineering over the latest ipod connection, so one way to get them to buy a new one was to make the steel so poor and the paint finish so fragile that the body panels literally crumble away.

I notice with my CLK that the underside and structure of the car is sound and rust free after 14 years. It is just the panels that are all rusting.....affecting the looks of the car, but nothing else.

 

[Frontstep]

Maybe the rusting issue is Mercs way of selling us the same thing again and again.

The mechanicals go on for decades (or use to in the 80's & 90's), so by making them rust, it might encourage owners to buy a new one every five years.

I'd rather just buy a Merc and run it for 30 years. I hate having to keep on buying the same thing again and again.

Merc needs new car sales, not people like me buying ten year old models and running them for another ten years+.
IMO, the W202 was the last over engineered Merc, but Merc knew that they had to sell more cars, so skimped on the rustproofing.

If a W202 didn't rust, what reason would anyone have to sell it, as they go on for decades. Bomb proof engines, gearboxes and very robust build quality is what buyers want. Merc wants to sell us the same thing again and again.

Unfortunately the W203 wasn't as good so why bother buying it??

No they need you as well, the second hand market underpins ex-lease car values so that the ex-lease buyer gets some money towards his next one from you, its an important cycle not to be overlooked.

 

[jberks]

My 178000 miles 1999 3.0 Omega would give you a run for its money too.

I dare say it might even outrun me! - though not return 48mpg at the same time!!
Also, no rattles, at all from a Vauxhall? (I loved the Omega though - great motors).

I don't think post 05 mercs rust any more than anything else. Before - sure, but not now.
As for the competition, Golf was a byword for reliability but everyone I know with one has had trouble with them. most recently a friend has binned his 55 plater with less than 100k on it. Kept letting him down, so he's bought ... a 2012 E220cdi Estate instead.
Other friends seem to forever be replacing their VW turbos.

 

[Rory]

As for the competition, Golf was a byword for reliability but everyone I know with one has had trouble with them. most recently a friend has binned his 55 plater with less than 100k on it. Kept letting him down, so he's bought ... a 2012 E220cdi Estate instead.
Other friends seem to forever be replacing their VW turbos.

I don't know how VW get away with the trouble they have with (especially) Golf. It does feel a cut above everything else in its class though.

Our local VW dealer makes the MB dealer seem friendly and helpful (both are owned by Inchcape).

 

[gizze]

In the mid nineties an E Class was the same price as a 2 bed terrace in the right area of Norwich, which is where I was living, those houses are now £170,000 and up.

It was a premium car because it was a very premium price, if it was still inline with those prices it would be classed as a premium product, 1 because of the price and 2 because none would be around as no twat would buy one.

 

[television]

In the mid nineties an E Class was the same price as a 2 bed terrace in the right area of Norwich, which is where I was living, those houses are now £170,000 and up.

It was a premium car because it was a very premium price, if it was still inline with those prices it would be classed as a premium product, 1 because of the price and 2 because none would be around as no twat would buy one.

And in 1965 the 113 SL cost more than my detached house in a private road in Watford

 

[Mcobinad]

Mercedes is no longer a proper premium brand

Who said so? Still my premium brand as far as the average car that drives on UK roads is concerned! Now, when things get out of place is when you equate it to Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo and the likes, then will I say that Mercedes is not a proper premium brand.

NB: I excluded Bentley from the range because they are manufactured by VAG group which is not on a par with Mercedes.

 

[television]

Who said so? Still my premium brand as far as the average car that drives on UK roads is concerned! Now, when things get out of place is when you equate it to Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo and the likes, then will I say that Mercedes is not a proper premium brand.

NB: I excluded Bentley from the range because they are manufactured by VAG group which is not on a par with Mercedes.

I tried a Bentley 2 weeks back and too large for my garage, plus the repair bills were too large for my wallet

 

[Mcobinad]

I tried a Bentley 2 weeks back and too large for my garage, plus the repair bills were too large for my wallet

Now, I would say the CL is on a par with Bentley. Except that the CL takes this humongous price depreciation in the first year while the Bentley's market remains pretty much stable. The only problem I have with the Bentley Continental Gt is the outdated technology used for their media system. Apart from that, everything inside that car just looks perfect. Malcolm, what was your impression of the Bentley apart from the expensive bills?

 

[BAD Arrows]

When my W123 was new (1985) it cost £10k, a great deal more than mainstream manufacturer's equivalent models and as in those days cheap and easy finance was not available Tom, Dick or Harry couldn't afford to get behind the wheel of a Mercedes. 30 years ago Mercedes cars were reserved for the well off and priveleged of our society.

Not today. With FWD base models on offer, cheap finance and mass production and sales, there is nothing special about a new Mercedes (unless it's a high spec SL, S, etc). Have you seen the sort of people that drive around in new C and E Classes? Common folk!

The same goes for AMG. 30 years ago an AMG car was special. Today you can order a C180 adorned with AMG wheels, styling, badges, etc. I had an "AMG" Coupe C-Class last year, a 220CDi and the only thing AMG about it was the badges.

Modern Mercs are no longer premium products. They don't stand out from their competitors like they use to, they rust, they break down and I wouldn't buy one. In late 2011 I bought a new BMW 520d Touring and haven't looked back,

Rant over!

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[]"When my W123 was new (1985) it cost £10k, a great deal more than mainstream manufacturer's equivalent models and as in those days cheap and easy finance was not available Tom, Dick or Harry couldn't afford to get behind the wheel of a Mercedes. 30 years ago Mercedes cars were reserved for the well off and priveleged of our society."[/I]

I consider myself to be your "Tom, Dick or Harry", my parents didn't have much money, I went to a state school, grew up with second hand clothes/games and the closest I came to a Mercedes Benz was standing at the side of the road on my way home from school waiting for one to drive past. So your suggestion that only the "well of and privileged" should be able to own a Mercedes Benz is highly offensive. What are you worried about? Is it that people won't know "you are, considerably, considerably, rich'ar, than yow"?

Not today. With FWD base models on offer, cheap finance and mass production and sales, there is nothing special about a new Mercedes (unless it's a high spec SL, S, etc).

I've worked my absolute knackers off and I'm now lucky enough to own a Bentley Continental GT. Where I live these cars are 10 a penny because of cheap finance offers and mass production which means every footballer, drug dealer and company director around drives one. I see 3 other Bentley's every morning, does this mean my car is "nothing special"???? Absolutely not, because sales volume, production numbers and how much it costs to buy, only make a car special to the most shallow people on the planet, if your car has to tell people how rich and success you are then I really feel sorry for you, for me my cars are about driver enjoyment, about looking at it and truly appreciating what a great looking motor it is, and about how hard I've had to work to get it and about the joy it can brings me every time I drive it.

Have you seen the sort of people that drive around in new C and E Classes? Common folk!

Are you for real? At first I thought it was a joke but looking at your other comments you do nothing to suggest it is. And then you tell someone else not to get personal........really. How much better than the rest of society are you for driving such superior cars to everyone else? Never judge someone by what they have but by who they are.......driving a C or E class does not make you common, but thinking that it does, does make you stupid

The same goes for AMG. 30 years ago an AMG car was special. Today you can order a C180 adorned with AMG wheels, styling, badges, etc. I had an "AMG" Coupe C-Class last year, a 220CDi and the only thing AMG about it was the badges.

I have a lot of friends who will never be able to afford to run/justify a full blooded AMG model. They are however big petrol heads and big MB fans. Do you therefore think that because they're not "as rich as yow" they should be denied the privilege of some AMG magic? Should AMG be reserved for "the big boys" like yourself and everyone else needs to just pick a standard or luxury spec model? I currently also own an SLK 55 AMG. I'd have to be seriously over compensating for something if it I took offensive to the fact a close pal of mine has just bought an SLK 250CDI in full AMG guise. He works his fingers to the bone to afford it and is immensely proud to say it's his (and the finance companies). I'm glad he can share in the AMG experience and not miss out just because he isn't "well off and privileged". Let's also not forget the whores over in Munich who pimp out the M badge very aggressively and were doing so well before anyone in Afalterbach realised the value of brand association.

Modern Mercs are no longer premium products. They don't stand out from their competitors like they use to

BMW M3 or MB C63 AMG
BMW M5 or E63 AMG
BMW M6 Cabriolet of SL63 AMG roadster
BMW 120d or Mercedes A250 CDI.......

What supercar do BMW make again? 850i.......well it was half way to a supercar 14 years ago when they we're running it out of production. Z8, yeah I remember, that was a much better car than a SL65 AMG.

What supercars do/have Mercedes make/made recently.........
SLS
SLS Black Series
SLR
SLR Roadster
SL65 AMG
CLK DTM
CLK GTR....shall I go on?
.............what engine do Pagani choose to stack in a Zonda???? Aaah, yes, that would be an MB lump.

What motorsport activity are BMW involved in? BTCC........how about Mercedes? That beautiful sport called F1!!!!

Of course I'd love to go to a grotty Croft/Donny to watch a boring BMW touring car tootle round in the soaking wet when I could be watching a screaming Mercedes F1 car thunder around the streets of Monaco in scoring sunshine..........oh no, wait...... I wouldn't.

they rust, they break down

Highest placed BMW in last years JD power survey...........31.
Mercedes highest placed vehicle in last years JD Power survey........NUMBER 5!!!!!!!

I wouldn't buy one. In late 2011 I bought a new BMW 520d Touring and haven't looked back,

GOOD!

The reason I love my 3 pointed stars so much is because of the people who drive them and this online community proves that. Mercedes Benz are driven by people who are normal, they love a good car not because it increases the size of their man hood, not because it makes them feel better than their 5 series driving neighbour, not because it says "ow rich I am" but because they are special cars. Special cars that put a smile on your face every time you twist the key, cars that inspire you to go for a drive just for the hell of it, cars that remind you why you get up so early, go to bed so late and work so hard in between.

So does driving a Mercedes Benz still make you better than the next guy.....well only if he's driving a BMW 520d.

 

[mickx]

Well put Colin - the guy is clearly a mushroom......

 

[st4]

Then a man who needs a haircut and a shave rocks up in a poverty spec C220cdi that stinks inside as he sleeps in it from time to time...

Rather spoils the image

 

[obduro]

great post colin - completely agree with what you've said. looks like we've had similar upbringings and I bought my first merc yesterday.

ST4 I agree with that as well, but there's always going to be something/someone that spoils your image of something, but right now as long as that "someone" who needs a trim and shave isn't sat in MY car, I'm happy

P.S. I do need a haircut and a shave, although I don't smell.

at least I don't think so...