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Tax .

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Frontstep, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    Well the paradise papers have opened a can of worms, even the Queen it seems is dodging with our money.
    Every pound lost to the ever inventive offshore tax havens is one less to spend on our public services.
    I know three tax exiles all saving money they don't need but others do.
    They all have one thing in person, they have an arrogance about them that is irritating.
    I used to think good luck to them now I begrudge my wedge to the revenue, where as I just used to see it as overheads.
     
  2. Big Cheese

    Big Cheese Senior Member

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    I agree,the gross amount of money wasted not just in Westminster but by councils all over the country is negligence to say the least.We have a vastly bloated system that needs severe pruning.
     
  3. Frosty149

    Frosty149 Senior Member

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    20% of the money in your pocket is destined for the exchequer, if not a lot more:

    Earnings taxed
    Expenditure taxed
    Savings interest taxed
    Pension taxed
    Death taxed

    With the efficiency of our system described by Parkinson’s law maybe it’s time for a financial revolution?
     
  4. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    Where is the criminal investigation into the breach of data protection formed by the release of these papers? That’s the real serious stuff. HMQ won’t have a clue exactly what her private portfolio includes (£3k to Brighthouse ffs? That’s not even a gnats nadger).

    There’s no “dodging” here. It’s a form of competition. If I could avoid tax by shifting my cash elsewhere? F*** yeah I’d do it in a heartbeat. Exchequer needs more money? Tax at source instead. Create efficiency in government (actual efficiency) instead for once. Pretending that everyone is equal just smacks of Communism and we all know how well that works. Just ask the Ossies.
     
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  5. Yugguy

    Yugguy Senior Member

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    Trouble is there is no incentive to be efficient. If the council gets all its works in under budget, it doesn't get to do more, instead it gets a smaller budget next time. Which is why you see massive roadworks before the end of the financial year.
     
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  6. Big Cheese

    Big Cheese Senior Member

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    Then I'd say the system needs changing root & branch.
    Why have we got the likes of Ms.Patel offering our tax payers money to the Israeli Army?
    They are one of the richest nations in the middle east & we're aiming to subsidise their army?
    There are to many things in our country that need our tax & we're throwing it around the likes of China,India for them to waste.
    Plain Crazy & must be stopped.
     
  7. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    To be honest if I earned 5m a year I'd happily pay half of that over to whatever country I wanted to live in without hassle and know that atleast some of it might do some good, in fact at any level I've never really begrudged tax other than when it creates petty buracracy. The point of money is it buys you freedom to go out and do enjoyable things, not have endless meetings with accountants and have to fly around the world on certain days/create a "vehicle" to repatriate money to where it is needed, worry if HMRC retrospectively change the law or declare it a "scheme" or that the papers may get hold of the data, etc etc.

    Tax is the price of civilisation and so it's only a fair form of competiotion if people pay tax where they live. If people want close to zero levels of taxation and spend 300+ days a year behind security gates (because there are no trustworthy police) in some carribean island then that's fine, if they spend 300+ days a year living in a country rife with gun crime and inequality and where people starve/die of poverty and pay moderate levels of taxation (i.e. the US) then that's fine. But if they want to live in a nice civilised society in Europe/UK then they should pay European/UK taxes. The problem with offshore tax avoidance is that the richest people get to live in civilised societies only possible due to a state/relatively high taxation and pay nothing towards them, which is not fair "competition".
     
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  8. Flyinspanner

    Flyinspanner Senior Member

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    I'd make taxation really simple, if your company operates here, has shops/ outlets/ uk staff - you will pay company tax. If you live and work here, you will pay tax on it.
    Step forward Starbucks, google, et al
     
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  9. dry run

    dry run Senior Member

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    If only tax WAS simple! It's not, which is why there are loopholes.

    As a director of a multi-national company (which I'm not), It would be my duty to maximise the profits for the benefit of the shareholders. It would be a dereliction of my duties if I failed to take advantage of all (legal) methods to increase profits and I wouldn't hold onto my job for very long! Most of these companies/organisations pay a lot of money for people who are "good at their job".

    If it's illegal - stop it and prosecute, but as I say it's not simple.
     
  10. Yugguy

    Yugguy Senior Member

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    Tax at point of sale. Simple.

    ****es me off no end that seemingly the richer you are the less percentage of tax you end up paying.

    Although you have to try and understand the mindset of the rich, to whom money is everything.
     
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  11. Naraic

    Naraic Moderator

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    So, how might you attract the likes of, say, Google to operate in your country and provide those tax paying jobs etc?
     
  12. PovertySpec

    PovertySpec Senior Member

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    Under what law and in which jurisdiction?
     
  13. Flyinspanner

    Flyinspanner Senior Member

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    We need the tax accountants (dodgers) working in the tax office :)
     
  14. Headhurts

    Headhurts Senior Member

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    I’m PAYE so no chance for me to ease my tax burden even in retirement.

    I have friends who have various jobs including builders, carpenters, landlords etc who deal in cash and I know that some of this seems to be stored in safes, below cookers and such like.

    It’s my belief that maybe all their earnings are not declared, I could be wrong of course, it’s all part of the game and large companies look at ways of easing their tax burden which if not illegal is fine.

    It’s the governments job to close these loopholes whilst at the same time making it viable for these businesses to exist here.

    No matter which government is in power this issue comes up time after time we seem to be forever tinkering with the system or rather refining it.

    One of my friends was bemoaning these companies, he made me smile as he often deals in cash, all of which of course is declared.



    Robin



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  15. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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  16. John Laidlaw

    John Laidlaw Senior Member

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    Wouldn’t it make our life easier knowing the tax we pay is not being squandered on inefficiency and poor management (and in some cases downright pilfering of one sort or another)- ‘maybe’ (and it’s a big ‘maybe’), a few of those seeking tax efficiencies would actually not mind paying what’s due. Very simplistic and naive view before anyone else says it!
    Just sayin....I know this thread is primarily about the systems set up to side step tax payments
    For the record I have not and never have been involved in such schemes and for sure pay taxes and lots of them....(If I’m lucky)
     
  17. Flyinspanner

    Flyinspanner Senior Member

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    Well I'm seriously no expert, but I imagine that any advertising revenue, sales profits etc generated in this country must somehow be traceable, we will tax that.

    Starbucks etc operate here, their staff rely on the NHS, their kids go to school, their goods are transported on our road network, these companies needs to help fund that infrastructure, no free ride. Especially as they make many many millions.

    I don't think for one moment they will suddenly withdraw, with costs around 20p for your £3.29 latte..........
     
  18. OP
    Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    Starbucks open their tax dodging coffee shops next door to tax paying ones the same as the mighty Amazon do, they open their warehouse and sell online in competition with tax paying ones.
    The problem is the infrastructure they use from roads for deliveries to the education and welfare of their staff is paid for by the ones they put out of business with their sharp practices.
    Still they operate to the letter of the law (usually) and until that law gets changed they will continue.
    If you operate here you pay tax here and transfer mis-pricing should be a criminal offence.
    The kings of this tax dodging Apple sit on a cash pile of 262 billion dollars at some point this money needs to go to work.
     
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  19. PovertySpec

    PovertySpec Senior Member

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    Yeah, good luck with that.

    Reading information on a server somewhere in the world from a PC in London isn't a breach of UK DPA law.

    Unknown hacker in unknown jurisdiction 'stole' the data from an unknown jurisdiction (probably via proxy) over 1 year ago. This current slew of data is alleged to be just part of the 'insurance' files (there's more to come) and the data was 'stolen' from the Caribbean and leaked to journalists in many jurisdictions who, quite correctly, have legal protection of their sources in place because the content of the docs is demonstrably in the public interest.

    No foul, just great journalism. Pity the Guardian is funded by a 'tax efficient' offshore trust otherwise it'd be perfect and I note that they haven't gone after Harmsworth, the Barclays etc. etc. who all do the same.

    More hypocrisy from the left but at least it got that idiot John McDonnell (who's pension if managed by an offshore company) to declare on national radio that Labour would introduce capital controls if they get into 'power'
     
  20. towat

    towat Senior Member

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    The real fault lies with our vastly over complicated tax system, if you have lots of money it is common sense not to keep it all in one place or even one country given what can happen to banks and economies, I would advise anyone to spread it around to minimise the risk, and given the choice you wouldn't then put it in a high tax area would you?

    Also UK domiciles pay UK tax on the world wide income anyway.
     

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